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12-18-2017, 12:15 PM | #41 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
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I reading these comments and looking at it from everyone's different perspectives and I respect everyone's opinion. However, the more I think about this movie and break it down the worse it gets. Bombs dropping in space, floating Leia(maybe there was some force field up but if not, when that door opened people would've sucked into space), the over-the-top feminist push(and I'm not one to get into those arguments or discussions but Disney is just getting ridiculous). To talk about that more, I loved how Wonder Woman handled it. You can have strong, intelligent even fierce women and still have intelligent men as well. I'm the father of an extremely gifted daughter who's going to do great things and I encourage her every step of the way. Even she sees the Disney messaging and thinks its ridiculous. Luke WAS a failure. He didn't even leave his island to face Kylo and help his sister. It was just lame and tired. Luke actually DID train on Dagobah with Yoda. Not in lightsaber form that was shown on screen but he also lost a hand when he faced Vader. He held his own until Vader stopped toying with him. The only character I like from the new cast is Finn. He's a like-able character. Poe...just dumb. I mean really just dumb. Rey was okay but the over-the-top force powers is corny. I'm okay with them not elaborating on who Snoke is or Rey's parents being no bodies. I'll even digress about Rey's saber skills as a friend agrued that living on Jakku she had to learn to defend herself. Ok, I can understand that. BUT...and a big BUT, that doesn't cover the other stuff. I didn't like The Force Awakens. Said that from day one. And I did like this more, but it just fell short on too many things. And, again, the Disney messaging is just bad. We live in a society that is making it bad to have some testosterone. I don't want to see that crap when I'm going to see my favorite movie franchise. My earliest movie memory was at an AMC theater watching Return of the Jedi. They are crapping on something dear to me and so many of us. I'm glad for the magnitude of you who enjoyed this film. So far not one of my friends liked it, even the one who said Rey should have some staff skills from her time on Jakku. Jones, I'm a huge fan of Nolan's work but I can't agree. To me Nolan would have given us a grounded movie but still given props where props are due like he did with The Dark Knight trilogy. Heck, I wish he did handle this. He's not one to sell-out to studios just to make them happy and promote their agendas. Okay, I think I said enough, lol. I usually don't jump on forums with my opinions but this, well this is Star Wars. Something that we all hold dear if you, like me grew up in the 80's. To conclude, I agree with Luke himself when he said "I fundamentally disagree with" how they handled Luke...
Last edited by stocos28; 12-18-2017 at 12:36 PM.. |
12-18-2017, 12:53 PM | #42 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 40
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My biggest problems with the movie can be boiled down to bad writing and poor commanding.
The chase that was the basis of the movie was stupid. Hux's first command should have been to send some of his fleet to hyperspace for 1 second to surround the rebel fleet. Holdo could have avoided Poe, Finn, and Rose's entire scheme by merely telling them she had a plan instead of keeping EVERYONE in the dark and making the entire rebel fleet think they are running away with no idea what to do. Either of these and you have no movie. Either of these and you have actual competent leaders I understand that some people loved the comedy, twists, etc. but every time they happened it jarred me out of the movie. This did not feel like a SW movie to me, and because of the glaring plot holes and tacked-on locations/characters it did not feel like a good movie to me. I'm glad that some people liked it, more power to them. |
12-18-2017, 12:56 PM | #43 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,444
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Time to weigh in on Star Wars, which is actually a bigger passion than GI Joe for me. I hear a lot of the complaints, and I get some of them. For the most part, a lot are misguided or self-deluded. Stocos, that was a well-reasoned post. I will say, the bombs could very easily have been propelled from the top. In space, you don't even need an explosive propulsion, obviously, all you'd need is a slide in those racks pushing the bombs down. Inertia would do the rest.
As for Leia, that was the one moment in the movie I really didn't like. However, no space opera (meaning not hard sci-fi) addresses space exposure, explosive decompression, or hull breaches scientifically. If you hate The Last Jedi for this, you hate Guardians of the Galaxy and pretty much any action-based science fiction movie that's come out ever. When I see people floating around exposed in space, I cringe, but I've gotten over it in stories like this. It shouldn't ruin your enjoyment or take you out of the movie at this point. I've seen the movie twice now. I loved it opening night. I really loved it when I saw it again two days later. I'll start by addressing my take on the myriad of complaints I've heard from a lot of people: Rey's parents: I thought this was a brilliant revelation. I really hope JJ Abrams (whom I like) doesn't seek to revisit this. It would have been tortuous to explain Rey's parentage if it was someone we knew. Kenobi? Try to explain not only Kenobi's wife/lover, but then their child, who would be Rey's parent. That dialogue would be ridiculous and the exposition would be painful. Luke? OK, more doable, but again, you're going to introduce us to the woman Luke Skywalker loved and lost (presumably) over the past 30 years? Good luck with that one. The fact that Rey comes from nowhere not only fits with the heroes rise from nothing theme, it fits the theme of this movie, which was stop staring at the past or the future, and focus on the now. Wonderful storytelling. Snoke's backstory: I'm certain Snoke's backstory is fascinating. I bet we'll see countless books about it. Four or five hundred page books explaining what and who he is, how he came to power, and how he corrupted Ben Solo. You can't fit that in a scene in a movie and make it matter. The first thing you learn in writing is, you have to be willing to kill your darlings. Your darlings are things you just love in a story, and want to tell people, but don't drive the plot forward. Snoke's background has nothing to do with this story or the trilogy. He is there to seduce Ben Solo, become disappointed in him, humiliate him, thus forcing Kylo Ren to kill the past (destroying his helmet in one last fit of rage). Kylo could then find the resolve that Snoke mistook for resolve to kill Rey, and instead strike down his master, thus surpassing Snoke and surpassing Darth Vader, who could never accomplish this feat. Kylo Ren is the most nuanced and interesting villain (and maybe character) in the Star Wars films. The humor: I could have done without the cloak brush off. Other than that, I was fine with it. I enjoyed it, and so did my wife and 8 year old. I saw an article that lamented all the terrible decisions the heroes made: Guess what, another rule of writing: your heroes make bad decisions. This is something so many scripts get wrong. A hero's trials and tribulations have to come from their own failings as much as from complications from the antagonist, so they can grow out of them and make the right decision at the end. I thought Finn and Rose did that. I thought even Poe did that, though his arc was a little murkier, to be fair. Luke corrected his bad decisions. Rey is a Mary Sue: Okay, maybe a bit. I see every Star Wars movie on opening night with an old friend. This is his major beef. Look, she's powerful in the Force. She's heard the legends, so maybe her mind control thing in TFA was just a stab she took from hearing stories, and her abilities worked, raw talent. Maybe her not realizing she shouldn't be able to do it is why it worked. Remember, you have to let go of your assumptions. She had none. Her lightsaber work? Established early in TFA when she used pretty solid technique with the dudes who tried to steal BB8. She can fight, and she can fight with weapons. I'm over worrying about her being talented. In all, I loved the movie, maybe I'll post my positive feelings later, but I doubt anyone read this LOL.
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12-18-2017, 01:11 PM | #44 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,091
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As much as I didn't like either of the new ones overall, things I like that everyone hates:
Max Power Rey: Luke sucked at the force for like three straight movies. I'm ok not revisiting that. He also cried about how hard it was a lot. Rey totally embraced the Force, craved its power, and never shied away from it. As it relates to the Force, I think that's a significant difference. My only real problem is if she was that strong in the Force, she should have seen significant signs of it before "now". Hell, there's an eight year old kid moving brooms as easy as breathing. Floating Leia: Leia should be a Force badass. I will never not be OK with awesome displays of power as it relates to one's command of the Force.
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12-18-2017, 01:31 PM | #45 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 888
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I am curious. Is there anyway the mods can run a poll so we can see what the community thought overall?
DBRITT, I read the whole post, LOL so that's one!
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12-18-2017, 01:31 PM | #46 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,091
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Quote:
My biggest problems with the movie can be boiled down to bad writing and poor commanding.
The chase that was the basis of the movie was stupid. Hux's first command should have been to send some of his fleet to hyperspace for 1 second to surround the rebel fleet. Holdo could have avoided Poe, Finn, and Rose's entire scheme by merely telling them she had a plan instead of keeping EVERYONE in the dark and making the entire rebel fleet think they are running away with no idea what to do. Either of these and you have no movie. Either of these and you have actual competent leaders I understand that some people loved the comedy, twists, etc. but every time they happened it jarred me out of the movie. This did not feel like a SW movie to me, and because of the glaring plot holes and tacked-on locations/characters it did not feel like a good movie to me. I'm glad that some people liked it, more power to them. She also she have gone hyperspace maybe before they destroyed almost the entire fleet of escape pods. And I get heroes aren't perfect and things go wrong- but Poe committed a hard treason, ironically enough as he so accuses others. He ran an unsanctioned black ops mission that can be directly linked to the cause of death of hundreds of rebels. I don't know that Poe can be considered a hero at all.
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12-18-2017, 02:05 PM | #47 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,444
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I'm gonna play TLJ apologist until you all agree it was great! LOL I would have liked for Holdo to explain things too. I'm a cop. I've known good supervisors and (really) bad ones that will not explain what they are doing to subordinates. Her actions are not without precedence. I agree she should have jumped to hyperspace. Perhaps, though, by removing the larger ship, scanners would have indicated the smaller ships were there? Also, I can't recall the exact exchange between DJ and Hux, but it was him who told the First Order about the cloaked ships, which he would know how to scan, because he used a similar technique to get on the Eclipse. I don't recall anything that indicated Poe's transmission was on an open line.
And yes, Poe made serious (treasonous) mistakes, so that he could make the right choice (?) to pull back at the end. I know I would have staged a mutiny when he did. It seemed like the right thing to do. And I don't think they'll be looking for retribution for his actions, because they have like twenty people left, so just let it go. The Rebels did .
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12-18-2017, 02:07 PM | #48 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NC
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And just to be clear, the plot's not perfect, that's not what I'm saying. Only Empire and ROTJ have really tight plots in terms of logic. All Star Wars movies have some plot holes. Call it the will of the Force.
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12-18-2017, 04:45 PM | #49 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,091
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Its 2017. Writing is just supposed to be better. Ill forgive the occasional plot hole or contrivance, but not so many stacked upon one another.
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12-18-2017, 05:18 PM | #50 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 14,839
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Quote:
Rey's parents: I thought this was a brilliant revelation. I really hope JJ Abrams (whom I like) doesn't seek to revisit this. It would have been tortuous to explain Rey's parentage if it was someone we knew. Kenobi? Try to explain not only Kenobi's wife/lover, but then their child, who would be Rey's parent. That dialogue would be ridiculous and the exposition would be painful. Luke? OK, more doable, but again, you're going to introduce us to the woman Luke Skywalker loved and lost (presumably) over the past 30 years? Good luck with that one. The fact that Rey comes from nowhere not only fits with the heroes rise from nothing theme, it fits the theme of this movie, which was stop staring at the past or the future, and focus on the now. Wonderful storytelling.
I enjoyed the movie for what it was. An exciting and fun story that fits within the mythology of our times.
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