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View Poll Results: Who is to blame? | |||
Toy companies | 0 | 0% | |
Retailers | 6 | 30.00% | |
Both | 14 | 70.00% | |
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
04-08-2010, 10:30 PM | #1 |
Artillery Gunner
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,401
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I'm working on a business paper for school in which I have to find a problem in an industry and come up with a solution. One part of the paper requires me to question a sample population.
The problem I'm working on is the current trend of toy companies (Hasbro, Mattel, and so on) marketing action figure lines to collectors and then not meeting the demand at retail. (Star Wars Legacy Collection anyone?) Also, as collectors we've all seen recent lines (Transformers Alternators, Indiana Jones, and G.I. Joe 25th to name a few) canceled while there still seemed to be demand. What I need is your input, as a sample of the collecting community, as to why this is happening. Is it the fault of the toy companies or the retailers? I know a lot of this has already been discussed on the site but I would like to collect the data here. Please help! |
04-08-2010, 11:03 PM | #2 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,426
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Tough one.
I think its the fault of both in different cases. With the Legacy Collection, I doubt its very clear on a store to store basis that there's a difference between Star Wars assortments. They're typically mixed up soon after an aisle reset. When I worked retail, the storage locations on the stockroom were always mixed up, so if Legacy style figures sold, they'd be refilled by whatever stock location the system said they were in. The unique packaging and (sadly) higher price should keep them pretty separate this year. The Indy line was an assumption on behalf of retailers and Hasbro that kids would be excited about a hero from 20 years ago. The buzz and nostalgic excitement of adult fans has helped Hollywood decide what films to make and remake and Indy is a huge part of adult pop culture so his return was a big deal. Hasbro put on a big presentation I'm sure, filled with tons of toys and the retailers ate it up. I don't think anyone stopped to think that the actual children needed to support all of this product had likely never even seen any of these "old" movies, and weren't going to immediately develop the same affection as adult fans, even if the film had been more successful. The end result was too much supply, little demand. There was so much product at launch that collectors couldn't buy enough of the figures to empty the stock so that newet waves could come out. The huge launch also led to sloppy figures, which nobody wants. The last 2 waves are higher quality probably because they weren't rushed. A smaller launch would have likely made them more available and extended the line's life. |
04-08-2010, 11:40 PM | #3 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 109
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I do think that most retailers do not take pride in arranging their aisles at the local level. I do think that when a company has something new they want to sell they will spend the money for the "top shelf" spots. Once the retailers see that product is not moving from order demands then they just move it on down the aisle until it either has to be marked down, moved to clearance, or back to manufacturing company. I would think that retail wants the foot traffic and if they don't see it then they don't get it.
The Companies I think have more to blame for what they send out to consumers. I can see them starting out a line, like the 25Th, to help bring back sales, promote movie, or to find their target audience. When they get the fever of the crowd into it they try to take it to what they think is the next level. This is the risk part they have to deal with. I think that when a company brings back "retro items" it takes the adult back to childhood memories and wants the same for their kids so the adults buy for the kids to share memories together. I do think that the company took a hit by "taking it to the next step", and either the company is trying to save face by denying the loss or they bit off more than they could chew and thought the next step would take them further than they had thought. While the company tries to figure out what to do next, they must produce the rest of the line (next step) that they started (got too much money into next step invested) and make the changes for the future. |
04-09-2010, 01:09 AM | #4 |
Dirty Nihilist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: California
Posts: 1,050
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A significant factor in all of this is the way Walmart and Target order product. Their system automatically reorders stock for figures once stock gets low (or something to that effect, I've had conversations with employees at both stores).
There is no personal involvement by Target or WM employees in regards to what is ordered/how much is ordered. A perfect example of why this is terribly flawed occurred to me just the other day. I went into WM after hearing that Wave 13 of DCUC was appearing. The day before their DCUC was completely empty, I arrived that day to find they had just received 3 new cases... of Wave 12. So now 3 cases worth of older product is going to peg warm preventing them from getting wave 13 any time soon. To the Walmart system this appears to be slow sales for that product, when it's actually an over supply of something that demand has dwindled for with an absence of supply for what's in demand within the same product line. If someone at these stores was actually tasked with personally ordering specific waves/case assortments, someone required to actually have their finger on the pulse of the collecting community, this problem would largely be resolved. Marvel Universe is another perfect example. WM's system doesn't reorder new stock because eleventy Human Torch's and Iron Man variations are showing they still have plenty...
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04-14-2010, 10:22 PM | #5 |
Artillery Gunner
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,401
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Thanks for the help gang.
I've added a poll and I could use a few more responses. |
04-14-2010, 11:10 PM | #6 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,161
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Indy, Partialy right on too much product at first, but also the later waves had even more pegwarming figures (Mutt Williams, RPG Indy). At the time Hasbro said Mutt was popular, thus I think it was assumptions on Hasbro's part that caused such insane case ratios. Even the last wave (Temple of Doom) still had two mutts and several indys (I know cause I ordered a case to ensure getting the figures).
Legacy, I am not speaking for the entire country here, but a buddy of mine works at WM and he told me that legacy orders are either outright cancelled or filled with Saga Legends. Similarly with MU they ordered Vision wave (Wave 5 I think, my brain can't remember off the top of my head) and they got the revision cases (filled with Caps, Wolvies, Silver Iron man's ect and none of the new figs). I did notice with 25th GI Joes (the first five waves) and MU (again first 5 waves) it seemed distrobution was very lax. I think hasbro believes this creates demand later (Idea being "I can't find it, gotta have it." thoughts in customers so that when revision cases do hit they sell out, that is all conjecture but I see no other logical explaination). Iron man can get out without any issues, as can spider-man animated, even Wolverine origins. Yet each time Hasbro is approched about this in Q&A's they blame different factors (most often fans but lately retailers) and offer no solutions. Perfect case in point: EU comic packs. Last two series of WM exclusives have been lackluster on thier best days (Ewoks, Annaman and two alien pilots first, then IG-97 and a imp officer and then two scouts). the first set of packs pegwarmmed massivly (No suprize to anyone) and then jammed up the shelves to slow the restocks which were to be the Darth Kyrat wave. What happened is the wave didn't reach the largest retailer until very late in the year (in some cases the following year, reason the stock was overloaded) so what is hasbro's responce? "OH EU isn't popular, we're cancelling it." yet anytime the wave has appeared it lasts maybe a day (Only lingering I have seen is the carry over packs like Wedge). same is happening with IG-97 wave. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see these trends. Legacy didn't sell is hasbro's line and yet it also never reached the shelves. Yet several waves hit one after another in oct-dec, so many it was near impossible to keep up even for the hardcore collector. Now with the "Hiatus" these waves are showing up finally (I just found ANH wave yesterday for instance, first time I have ever seen it at retail). If you want a wealth of info about how hasbro doesn't understand the market hit the Star Wars boards, they are pretty level headed people who are pretty po'ed at hasbro's games (Literally what they will refer them to) and are vocal about it. Oh they appreciate product and talk about it too, but there is a point they won't tow the line. |
04-14-2010, 11:12 PM | #7 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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ITs the fault of both for different reasons.
A large part of it falls on the retailor. As someone stated above, there is no logic or involvement in most (debatably any) of the retailers toy ordering. The line "Transformers" or "Star Wars" is simply that. What Wave, Collection, Case, etc. from that line is on the shelf or being ordered is not relavant to them. They see it that: "We have Transformers on the shelves for people to buy." They do not think "We have the same four Transformers on the shelves that we had six months ago that everyone already has." To them it doesn't matter. The SKU is filling space and its all good. However, both kids and collectors alike have a limited number (usually 0-1 excluding army-builders) of each figure they want to purchase and will stop buying if its the same figures on the shelves. Of course, this leads directly to stagnation and the product not moving. And if the product doesn't move, it is eventually clearanced, and the store doesn't want to carry it anymore. Its not because the toy line wasn't popular, its because the sales market for the figures that were available was already tapped out. This same problem is what leads to 'peg warmers' clogging the shelves preventing new product from arriving. However, the Toy Companies are also to blame due to their generally very poor execution of collector lines. While it is understandable that the 'core characters' of a brand must be present to hook new fans in with the people they know, there's a limit to how many a collector will be interested in of one character. The toy companies vastly over-estimate this, and produce a large number of unwanted figures (see SE and CC in the 25th line). Its not necessarily a bad idea to have a few different versions of a character in a collector line (see: SE 82, SE 85, SE 88; OR Pilot Luke Skywalker, Hoth LS, Stormtrooper disguise LS) its another to release a slight repaint of the same one a dozen times (see: SE 82 version in about 8 paint schemes). There's a limit. Secondarly: re-releases abound. How many times have we seen the same 20 figures released from the "Star Wars Saga Collection". Good lord, they've been out for 5 years some of them. They're time is up already. Let them die. A perfect example of this is the Star Wars comic packs. How many times did they release the Marvel issues with Han/Chewie, Luke and a Stormtrooper and Vader and a Rebel? I counted 4. Probably more. And now that the line is really getting good (Kyle Katarn and a Yuuzhan Vong, Krayt and an Imperial Knight, Exar Kun and Ulic, etc) they're choosing to cancle it because of poor sales. These sales wouldn't be nearly so poor if the early comic packs had been of the same quality as the new ones being proposed and hadn't been reissued so many times. (This also ties back to the retailors ordering the same thing repeatedly). Also, the Toy Companies consistently underestimate fan demand for Collector Driven lines, then Overestimate, then repeat cycle. Look at the 25th line for example. Waves 1-5 were nearly impossible to find, 6-8 slight improvement. Then Hasbro said, OK, everyone wants more, we'll do that. Then multiplies production by far too much, floods the market and causes the problem with over-ordering of the same product described above. They then use this as a 'valid' reason to scale back production because supply>demand, even if only artificially so, returning to underestimating the size of the demand. Now, looking at things from a purely economic point of view, there is a sales problem with collector-driven lines - its not enough of sales specifically. But this is not due to a lack of collector demand, it is due in large part to poor production and distribution organization on both the part of the Toy Companies and end Retailors. The Collecting Community has shown a willingness to support the product produced - look at the sales of on-line exclusive multipacks for Star Wars and G I Joe. When the products are available in a single place, without the issue of peg-warming from overproduced or overordered figures that have already played out their sales period, the sales are fairly brisk (how quickly did BBTS sell out of the Cobra Island 7-packs again?) The problem comes down to a lack of communication between the Fans, Retailors and Toy Companies to distribute product in an organized and reasonable manner, that only leaves figures on the shelf for an appropriate period of time. |
04-14-2010, 11:25 PM | #8 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 2,197
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There is also some blame to be levied on the fickle nature of adult collectors. Some blame for the secondary market shennanigans resulting from "gotta have it first, gotta have it now" mentalities.
Although, after reading the above poster's thoughts, I am going to agree that the SKU system has some blame. Without knowing what percentage of SKU sales a retailer considers acceptable, If a certain % of an assortment is not moving the SKU system might mask the fact that the line over all was well received but 1 or 2 peices in that assortment were turds. Last edited by txbart; 04-14-2010 at 11:34 PM.. |
04-14-2010, 11:47 PM | #9 |
AKA Batman Jones
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 809
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I'm honestly curious to see the responses to this thread. I've not been into Joe "again" very long so I'm not familiar with the exact distro/ manufacturing/ ect. side of it. Now about comic books and Diamond, I can tell you loads on what’s wrong with that industry! Diamond being a big part of the problem all by it's self.
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04-15-2010, 12:27 AM | #10 |
Scarred Cobra Officer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,612
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I would recommend reading a transcript of their the big toy companies' quarterly calls and their 10-k filings.
Toy companies would obviously want to sell more. But limited shelf space at retailers prevents them too. Plus, limited demand from buyers is another problem. Last thing toy companies want to do is to produce a ton of stuff and no one buys, leaving a huge inventory for them to maintain. |
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