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05-10-2022, 04:13 PM | #11 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,063
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Quote:
To take legal recourse, one could sue, and then establish that you were embezzled (the founder had no intention of ever completing the project, etc), and I think KS is pretty well guarded against taking on any of that liability. So, if Solomon started production and things didn't work out, the money went dry, and the project is dead, I don't know that there's much recourse, even if the legal fees involved would be worth the pledge that you lost. Granted, all that could be completely wrong, but just based on similar things, I imagine it's something like that.
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05-10-2022, 04:31 PM | #12 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,456
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It's not 'buried', it's very up-front on the Pledge Selection page:
I have no idea why anybody would think KickStarter Incorporated would or should be liable for 'thieves' even if that could be legally proven on the creator's part. I think Solomon's silence about it all is simply this being really goddamned humiliating for him. It's not an excuse assuming 'default' actually has happened; but it's the most likely reason. |
05-10-2022, 05:31 PM | #13 |
Just a fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: NY
Posts: 8,568
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That's too bad, these look cool.
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05-10-2022, 05:34 PM | #14 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,063
|
Quote:
It's not 'buried', it's very up-front on the Pledge Selection page:
I have no idea why anybody would think KickStarter Incorporated would or should be liable for 'thieves' even if that could be legally proven on the creator's part. I think Solomon's silence about it all is simply this being really goddamned humiliating for him. It's not an excuse assuming 'default' actually has happened; but it's the most likely reason. I always thought KS made it pretty clear your choices are on you, but you know how people do.
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05-10-2022, 08:07 PM | #15 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lafayette La
Posts: 8,741
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Quote:
Producing molds and production casts is *not* taking the money and running. If anything it's the Factory that did that. The most-likely scenario is that the production casts were sub-standard and he didn't have the even-more money required to re-tool the molds and pay for new production plastic.
This happens *routinely* in toy production, the difference is that Hasbro, Mattel, et al have the money to make fixes so all you notice is a delayed product. Another issue is if he doesn't have an on-site representative then unethical factory supervisors have little ways to drag out operations that ensure your funds get depleted. They get to keep the money and materials while you go bankrupt. Another challenge is when your onsite representative/advocate is corrupt. That's what happened to Animal Kingdom and Eagle Force (maybe, two or three kickstarter guys got scammed by the same rep). Quote:
There's little recourse for the client when dealing internationally. Even if you technically own the tooling, as a small operation you probably couldn't afford the shipping and import/export fees associated with the asset. If your tools are worth $100k and there's a 15% import fee then you need to pony up $15k just to get thru customs. The biggest incentive not to screw people over is reputation. The failure of Hell Screamerz will negatively impact future fundraising campaigns regardless if his intentions were Machiavellian or altruistic. If you purposely scam folks with a fraudulent campaign folks will likely avoid future campaigns if you're not banned from the platform. Factories have more leeway. A reputation of poor production and unethical behavior will kill their ability to gain new clients. However, an established factory that has a good rapport with long standing clients can afford to screw over a small hobbyist with a one time small production run. Quote:
Every now and then this pops up, and sorry but I feel like I was robbed. You guys may be right about it but he should give some insight then. I remember that sometime ago he was complaining about people bitching around and that he was going to refund them because he didn't want to deal with them. Did he do that? Sorry but if he is having that type of problems he should come upfront and be honest with everyone. Eagle Force had that type of problems, with factory which didn't deliver but eventually they sorted things out obtaining support from other guys. As it is, and after so much time it simply feels like a scam.
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05-10-2022, 10:10 PM | #16 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 818
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After the KS ended, he put additional items up on sunokstudios.com with the homage to Air Raiders figures. I remember ordering those figures as well back in 2019 when I still believed that the KS figures were going to happen. Should have known better.
I understand to an extent that there isn't much reason to post updates if there's nothing to update but it would be nice to get something since the last KS update was from 1/19/2021. It's so far gone you can't even request an update through KS anyomore.
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05-10-2022, 11:14 PM | #17 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 777
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Quote:
Producing molds and production casts is *not* taking the money and running. If anything it's the Factory that did that. The most-likely scenario is that the production casts were sub-standard and he didn't have the even-more money required to re-tool the molds and pay for new production plastic.
This happens *routinely* in toy production, the difference is that Hasbro, Mattel, et al have the money to make fixes so all you notice is a delayed product. As for Hellscreamerz, I have zero inside information, but I can offer this nugget with my two-cent commentary. Sometime last year, a bunch of unpainted Hellscreamerz stuff (figures, heads, parts) showed up on Chinese ecommerce site Taobao. Some of it we had seen already in photos the project shared of their progress. So, again, no one ran off with the money, it was spent. Is it a bad sign that it showed up online? Maybe, maybe not. Stuff leaks out of factories for most toylines (it’s out of the creators’ control, generally. So, I picked some up just out of curiosity. My verdict? Not great. The headsculpts are nice. The figures are serviceable, but feel kind of a bit primitive to me (hard plastic, loose legs). They just don't strike me as being up to the level of other current independent toylines. And the accessories? My god, a gazillion bitsy pieces in so many colours. This was my big concern with the project and a key reason why I didn't back it. There were just so many parts in so many colours, I thought how are they ever going to get all this done? It's hard enough for a start-up to get a simple assortment of figures off the ground. With Hellscreamerz, it just seemed like so much potential for quality problems and frustration for the creator and the factory. Now a caveat here, in fairness to the project, this stuff dumped on Taobao, may literally be garbage, it could be the stuff that didn't pass quality control. But even so, as I try to assemble the parts, all the bitsiness of it just doesn’t make sense to me, particularly the design of the back/jetpacks. I could be wrong and it isn’t fair to judge a work in progress, but some of it just seems ill-conceived and overly complicated. Now this is just my opinion. I’m not a toy expert. And while it’s a criticism, it doesn’t impune the creator’s motivations. I just suspect that the project was kind of doomed from the beginning due to having too big a scope (too many figures in too many colours) and too complicated designs (too many parts). The first rule of working with a Chinese factory is a lot will go wrong. And the more stuff that you are trying to get through production, the more there is to get wrong. Here's my guess, and it’s only an uninformed guess. Like many projects, they got through the big initial spurt of getting molds and samples made. And then you start facing the problems, what isn't up to scratch, the back forth, and that’s where projects grind down. Factories have done a big part of the work, the money is spent, and they want to move on to new stuff with new cash. You need really good relationships and ideally a go-between fixer on the ground, to navigate the problems and keep the factory motivated. I suspect the money ran out ($94K is not much for a project of this scope and complexity). The problems to be fixed mounted. Enthusiasm waned. And throw into that a pandemic. I’m sure there is more to the story than this. There always is. Factories can fail. Factories can be unscrupulous. Factories can be not up to the challenge. Is the project still going? Maybe the creator thinks it is. Maybe the factory is telling them it is. He said, they said. Who knows. The thing about creators and entrepreneurs is they never want to say die. You would never take a leap on something like this if that was in your DNA. So, they keep going, or feeling like they are still going, long after the writing is on the wall. A project like this is a dream for a creator who’s an artist, and dreams don’t die easily. Maybe Hellscreamerz somehow gets a second wind and resurfaces. But after so much time and clearly the money is already spent, I don’t see it happening. But what do I know. Just my two cent from afar. Last edited by jabalong; 05-10-2022 at 11:45 PM.. |
05-10-2022, 11:55 PM | #18 |
Bald Master
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
Posts: 15,123
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Hellscammerz. It’s all in the name.
Ask people who’ve been around this community long enough about good ‘ol Solomon. Promises broken before this KS, no surprises after it. Back the wrong horse, you get what you get. Marauders, Skeletron, Longbow, 3-D Joes…these are current/upcoming creators with backing from the community. Eagle Force was questionable until it wasn’t. I’m sure Bill took a huge loss, but found a new factory and never gave up. Now, Fresh Monkey joins that group of creators worth trusting/investing in.
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05-11-2022, 12:25 AM | #19 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,067
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I remember Solomon from before he started the Kick. Just from posts on social media. I loved the idea of HS, but something just told me not to get involved. No idea why. It just seemed...maybe too ambitious. Just dumb luck on my part not getting involved. I did really like the look of the figures. I feel for you guys who did.
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05-11-2022, 12:27 AM | #20 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,067
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jabalong, I would love to see those HS samples you got. Just out of curiosity if you are ever inclined to post picks.
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