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06-03-2023, 02:09 AM | #10411 |
Spc Weapons and Tactics
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: CO
Posts: 869
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Quote:
I've seen this comment in the past which has me confused too, I thought blueshirts were the lowest tier but I see posts saying Vipers would be the lowest.
It's fine if I'm wrong but Vipers seem decently equipped in comparison to the troopers with little to no protection wielding Kalashnikovs over laser rifles. Cobra Trooper's filecard refers to them as "One of the nameless, faceless legions of COBRA Command." Which would indicate to me that they're part of the command structure of Cobra, like support staff. Larry Hama apparently often referred to Troopers as Vipers, and I believe the same thing happened multiple times in the comics, so I think from a lore perspective, they're essentially the same thing, just in different positions and uniforms. They're all basic grunts of Cobra, but some are in frontline positions (Vipers) and others are in backline ones (Troopers). Last edited by Spider5800; 06-03-2023 at 02:19 AM.. |
06-03-2023, 05:08 AM | #10412 |
left 2024-01-19
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Away
Posts: 6,719
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Quote:
He's the original greenshirt so I'm glad Hasbro didn't forget about him. It's just hard to get excited over a guy named Grunt. Last edited by TheOverlordCorp; 08-10-2023 at 01:39 PM.. |
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06-03-2023, 05:37 AM | #10413 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,078
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Quote:
So this is one of those things that may be a retcon. Vipers came out YEARS after the Troopers did, but the Vipers' original filecard said they were the lowest ranked guys. "If you want to get anywhere in Cobra, you have to start out as a Viper. That's the bottom of the pyramid, and serving in the Cobra infantry is a small price to pay to gain access to the glittering prizes at the top."
Cobra Trooper's filecard refers to them as "One of the nameless, faceless legions of COBRA Command." Which would indicate to me that they're part of the command structure of Cobra, like support staff. Larry Hama apparently often referred to Troopers as Vipers, and I believe the same thing happened multiple times in the comics, so I think from a lore perspective, they're essentially the same thing, just in different positions and uniforms. They're all basic grunts of Cobra, but some are in frontline positions (Vipers) and others are in backline ones (Troopers). |
06-03-2023, 06:20 AM | #10414 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,082
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Going strictly by the file cards, Cobra Troopers are like special agents, spy?s, saboteurs, covert operatives, classic terrorists. Hence the Sniper Rifles. Vipers are like Army Rangers, primarily Combat Troops. There is no hierarchy because they have different functions.
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06-03-2023, 08:24 AM | #10415 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 4,691
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Quote:
- I don't like the vest, would much rather have seen some standard webgear (or at least that as an option as opposed to a few recycled pieces such as - the helmet, which is the same as Rock N' Roll's. In fairness, duh, it should be (they're co-workers!); however I also would like to see something smoothed out and shaped similar to (oh, here he goes) the ARAH standard helmet. - or the Steel Brig...Corps, I mean...alternate head. The theory behind this is fine (at least in some fictive part of my brain), that "Grunt" was created as a figure to be a grunt soldier, i.e. a greenshirt, i.e., a troop builder. This allows that to be the case. Steel Brigade doesn't do much for me personally, and since we already have a specific SC troop builder set coming, I would have liked to have seen something slightly different here. Again, like the thinking more than the execution - Finally, in my mind Grunt (irrespective of what he's wearing) looks like what a 36-year old guy would look like in 1981 - by today's standards, a 47-year-old divorced dad with partially-complete pattern baldness. The closest tv approximation to what I see Grunt looking like is the character "Red" (I think?) from That 70's Show - age lines and all. The Grunt sculpt we got is too traditional top-of-the-bell-curve white guy handsome. Which, we already have loads of big hunks in the line w/r/t head sculpts - Duke, Flint, Roadblock, Breaker, Outback. Sure, okay, we have Falcon. But let's get some world-weariness in the figures. Consider how incredible Scrap-Iron's sculpt looks, or Major Bludd. Those guys have "seen some s***." No reason we can't get that from Grunt. Another smooth-skin white meat babyface? Feel we go there too much. This is me explaining why I'm "okay" on Grunt. Like I said, I'll buy it, it's fine, not amazing (The XMLR rifle is a sweet inclusion - that's not the first time, is it?). And I sincerely appreciate what's clearly some creative thinking behind it. Finally, let me be clear - this is all just my opinion. If you love the figure, think it's the best ever - hell yeah, that's great for you. This is all subjective and I'm chuffed that you're so pleased with it. And it represents the Joe team taking risks. Anyone in a creative job should be able to take risks on design, on accessories, on story - and you as a creative (and we as consumers) accept that the flip side of "gets to take chances" in the context of a nostalgia line can be "isn't exactly what you were hoping for." I'm grateful they tried, and the next time they take a chance and I think they absolutely crushed it (or, again, hey, Scrap-Iron absolutely rules and I'm delighted they didn't keep his puffy pants!), we'll all be grateful we didn't jump down their throats when the designs aren't exactly what we hoped for. ...This is all a love letter to the Joe team to get to work on Metal-Head.
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06-03-2023, 09:03 AM | #10416 |
One Man National Asset
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 624
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Quote:
Going strictly by the file cards, Cobra Troopers are like special agents, spy?s, saboteurs, covert operatives, classic terrorists. Hence the Sniper Rifles. Vipers are like Army Rangers, primarily Combat Troops. There is no hierarchy because they have different functions.
It makes more sense that there is a rank structure that is equivalent across every function, with the exception of specially granted titles/positions for the named characters. For example, there are both enlisted and officer ranked personnel among the blue shirt infantry and the Vipers. "Trooper" or "Viper" itself is not a rank, more like an MOS. It might not just be my own head canon as this seems to bear out among the figures going back to ARAH - a Cobra Officer wears basically the same blue uniform as Cobra "the enemy" trooper, except his sigil is silver denoting he holds some officer rank. The recent Classified CI Trooper comes with an armband with some inverted chevrons on it which in theory can be on anyone, not because a Trooper inherently outranks a Viper or a Cobra Infantryman. But as far as characters represented in figure form go, it makes no sense at all for the Viper Officer to wear a completely different colored uniform. It should have been done just like the Infantry, silver or gold insignia on uniform. This could have been what Hama intended as he was in the military but of course keeping up with this attention to detail as the property had a cartoon and a movie and characters that became more and more fantasy based made it unnecessary. This coincides with the other big rank/billet/ controversy but on the GI JOE side with Falcon being an officer but being seemingly subordinate to enlisted personnel. |
06-03-2023, 09:36 AM | #10417 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 1,130
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Quote:
Going strictly by canon is too convoluted and it doesn't make sense in a (para)military organization to have your function be the equivalent of your standing. It gets worse since the label "Viper" is usually after every function .
It makes more sense that there is a rank structure that is equivalent across every function, with the exception of specially granted titles/positions for the named characters. For example, there are both enlisted and officer ranked personnel among the blue shirt infantry and the Vipers. "Trooper" or "Viper" itself is not a rank, more like an MOS. It might not just be my own head canon as this seems to bear out among the figures going back to ARAH - a Cobra Officer wears basically the same blue uniform as Cobra "the enemy" trooper, except his sigil is silver denoting he holds some officer rank. The recent Classified CI Trooper comes with an armband with some inverted chevrons on it which in theory can be on anyone, not because a Trooper inherently outranks a Viper or a Cobra Infantryman. But as far as characters represented in figure form go, it makes no sense at all for the Viper Officer to wear a completely different colored uniform. It should have been done just like the Infantry, silver or gold insignia on uniform. This could have been what Hama intended as he was in the military but of course keeping up with this attention to detail as the property had a cartoon and a movie and characters that became more and more fantasy based made it unnecessary. This coincides with the other big rank/billet/ controversy but on the GI JOE side with Falcon being an officer but being seemingly subordinate to enlisted personnel. Quote:
So here's my best effort at articulating - pre-warning, it's easily disregardable if "not quite what I envisioned a 6" ARAH Grunt to look like" isn't something you want to hear.
- I don't like the vest, would much rather have seen some standard webgear (or at least that as an option as opposed to a few recycled pieces such as - the helmet, which is the same as Rock N' Roll's. In fairness, duh, it should be (they're co-workers!); however I also would like to see something smoothed out and shaped similar to (oh, here he goes) the ARAH standard helmet. - or the Steel Brig...Corps, I mean...alternate head. The theory behind this is fine (at least in some fictive part of my brain), that "Grunt" was created as a figure to be a grunt soldier, i.e. a greenshirt, i.e., a troop builder. This allows that to be the case. Steel Brigade doesn't do much for me personally, and since we already have a specific SC troop builder set coming, I would have liked to have seen something slightly different here. Again, like the thinking more than the execution - Finally, in my mind Grunt (irrespective of what he's wearing) looks like what a 36-year old guy would look like in 1981 - by today's standards, a 47-year-old divorced dad with partially-complete pattern baldness. The closest tv approximation to what I see Grunt looking like is the character "Red" (I think?) from That 70's Show - age lines and all. The Grunt sculpt we got is too traditional top-of-the-bell-curve white guy handsome. Which, we already have loads of big hunks in the line w/r/t head sculpts - Duke, Flint, Roadblock, Breaker, Outback. Sure, okay, we have Falcon. But let's get some world-weariness in the figures. Consider how incredible Scrap-Iron's sculpt looks, or Major Bludd. Those guys have "seen some s***." No reason we can't get that from Grunt. Another smooth-skin white meat babyface? Feel we go there too much. This is me explaining why I'm "okay" on Grunt. Like I said, I'll buy it, it's fine, not amazing (The XMLR rifle is a sweet inclusion - that's not the first time, is it?). And I sincerely appreciate what's clearly some creative thinking behind it. Finally, let me be clear - this is all just my opinion. If you love the figure, think it's the best ever - hell yeah, that's great for you. This is all subjective and I'm chuffed that you're so pleased with it. And it represents the Joe team taking risks. Anyone in a creative job should be able to take risks on design, on accessories, on story - and you as a creative (and we as consumers) accept that the flip side of "gets to take chances" in the context of a nostalgia line can be "isn't exactly what you were hoping for." I'm grateful they tried, and the next time they take a chance and I think they absolutely crushed it (or, again, hey, Scrap-Iron absolutely rules and I'm delighted they didn't keep his puffy pants!), we'll all be grateful we didn't jump down their throats when the designs aren't exactly what we hoped for. ...This is all a love letter to the Joe team to get to work on Metal-Head. |
06-03-2023, 09:44 AM | #10418 |
Barty's Right-hand Man
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,138
|
Oh God yes. You and me both.
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06-03-2023, 09:44 AM | #10419 |
Barty's Right-hand Man
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,138
|
Id say both, eventually
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06-03-2023, 10:05 AM | #10420 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 1,564
|
More reuse of moulds and repaints... in a line they own and no licence fee to pay, they could do more and add more unique stuff instead of overlays... like the OG Gi Joe there was hardly any reuse. And with the QC issues still going on lol.
I swear Hasbro has my brain hacked lol every time I do a custom they do the real one lol If they do a crimson trooper next :P |
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