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02-08-2023, 12:10 AM | #31 |
Grail Knight
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 958
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I like GI Joe having some ninjas in it, but not overpowering the story. I can go with Cobra having hordes of Ninja henchmen like the badguys in American Ninja, or the cool camo-clad ninjas in the Sho Kosugi film Rage of Honor.
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I prefer the Sunbow cartoon's way of handling Ninjas, where Storm Shadow was basically it. One Ninja mercenary was cool. The Comics and later Toys made too many Ninjas and diluted Storm Shadows' uniqueness. The comics contant flip flopping of Storm Shadow from Cobra to GI Joe and back to Cobra got old fast.
Examples: https://youtu.be/7zTXTYMLsE8?t=259 https://youtu.be/ryBevHPAZH0?t=735 Quote:
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Shipwreck - His look is just basic navy uniform. He was inspired by Jack Nicholson in the Last Detail, and then he promptly surpassed that character. It's a crime that nobody's ever even tried to do a proper live action Shipwreck. Wild Bill - Obviously inspired by Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now. Gung Ho - He's basically in every war movie ever, especially the 70s and 80s ones. I don't know if Spirit was designed after a movie, but he really does fit with contemporary figures like Duke, Airborne and Recondo. To each their own, I guess, but I like all these guys. Now if you want to see a movie where a ninja does fight the Village People, check out 1983's Revenge of the Ninja (Sho Kosugi again). Not exactly a deep thinking type of film, but it's lots of fun, and it has a great soundtrack by the GI Joe composer himself, Rob Walsh. |
02-08-2023, 12:14 AM | #32 |
Just a fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: NY
Posts: 8,586
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02-08-2023, 12:20 AM | #33 |
Grail Knight
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 958
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I dunno, I still don't really see it. The guys in the park fight in Revenge of the Ninja on the other hand, they're definitely the Village People.
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02-08-2023, 09:07 AM | #34 |
One Man National Asset
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 624
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Being a little younger I was the perfect age to buy the Ninja everything as it came out. Of course Snake Eyes was my childhood favorite (my friend and I actually walked for miles to a Kiddie City [or it could have been TRU I don't recall exactly] to look for v4 Snake Eyes) and I also had a big fondness for Slice and Dice. I still do for the latter two because they were not garish and can still fit in a limited ninja involvement thinking about the whole thing as an adult with a wacky head canon for JOE.
I did not grow up reading most of the Marvel run but I did just complete it recently. Of course I am viewing it from a different lens now, but it was absolutely overbearing in the later issues. They were made to be super human and were relied upon to do everything. Even the quieter moments that focused on the story of Snake Eyes felt tedious. Whoever mentioned Storm Shadow was just Snake Eyes' narrator is spot on. It essentially was not GI JOE anymore, it was Snake Eyes' story. |
02-08-2023, 10:26 AM | #35 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: RI
Posts: 230
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The ninja in G.I. JOE can be a source of contention in the G.I. JOE fandom, mostly because those who don't like the ninjas feel their overexposed and overly used. Also, those who lean towards the using the JOE team in a real world military sense there's a lack of congruency in mixing special operations operators with martial artists who use mainly melee and bladed weapons. However, ninjas not only work in the JOEverse, they serve a practical purpose and function in the JOEverse that's can be tied to the real world. First let's start by defining what the shinobi are.
often initial capital letter) a member of a feudal Japanese society of mercenary agents highly trained in martial arts and stealth (ninjutsu), who were hired for covert purposes ranging from espionage to sabotage and assassination. - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ninja A ninja or shinobi was a covert agent, mercenary, or guerrilla warfare expert in feudal Japan. The functions of a ninja included, reconnaissance, espionage, infiltration, deception, ambush, bodyguarding and their fighting skills in martial arts, including ninjutsu. - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja The underlined is very important because in the media that I've seen whenever they're portrayed what I call the "martial arts," aspects ninjutsu which include such tropes as black clad "pajama," wearin' muthafuckas with swords runnin' hella fast across rooftops at night and why are ninjas always runnin' hella fast across rooftops at night? Anyway. On occasion you might get the assassin aspect of ninjas in media, but you never get the intelligence operative part of ninjutsu and from what I gathered in my research that's what the ninja mainly did in feudal Japan, spying. If I were to draw a real world analogy I would say the the ninja were the feudal Japanese equivalent to the CIA and special operations of modern times. Fun fact. Did y'all know that Edward Snowden was working for a private intelligence company when he "broke," bad and told the business? The ODNI estimated that 70*percent of the intelligence community?s secret budget goes to contractors such as Booz Allen Hamilton. ?We Can?t Spy*. . .*If We Can?t Buy!? the briefing said. The former director of naval intelligence, retired Rear Adm. Thomas A. Brooks, said in a report in 2007 that private contractors had become a crucial part of the nation?s intelligence infrastructure. ?The extensive use of contractor personnel to augment military intelligence operations is now an established fact of life.*. . .*It is apparent that contractors are a permanent part of the intelligence landscape,? he said. - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...0287_story.htm - 5 Corporations Now Dominate Our Privatized Intelligence Industry This unaccountable oligarchy of spies controls the information that guides our military and civilian leaders. By Tim Shorrock SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 The recent integration of two military contractors into a $10 billion behemoth is the latest in a wave of mergers and acquisitions that have transformed America?s privatized, high-tech intelligence system into what looks like an old-fashioned monopoly. The recent integration of two military contractors into a $10 billion behemoth is the latest in a wave of mergers and acquisitions that have transformed America?s privatized, high-tech intelligence system into what looks like an old-fashioned monopoly. In August, Leidos Holdings, a major contractor for the Pentagon and the National Security Agency, completed a long-planned merger with the Information Systems & Global Solutions division of Lockheed Martin, the global military giant. The 8,000 operatives employed by the new company do everything from analyzing signals for the NSA to tracking down suspected enemy fighters for US Special Forces in the Middle East and Africa. The sheer size of the new entity makes Leidos one of the most powerful companies in the intelligence-contracting industry, which is worth about $50 billion today. According to a comprehensive study I?ve just completed on public and private employment in intelligence, Leidos is now the largest of five corporations that together employ nearly 80 percent of the private-sector employees contracted to work for US spy and surveillance agencies. Yes, that?s 80 percent. For the first time since spy agencies began outsourcing their core analytic and operational work in the late 1990s, the bulk of the contracted work goes to a handful of companies: Leidos, Booz Allen Hamilton, CSRA, SAIC, and CACI International. - https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...ndustry/tnamp/ So what does this have to do with G.I. JOE and ninjas? Everything. Some JOE will argue that certain aspects of the mythos need to modernized while ignoring the one aspect for JOE that is in the most need of modernizing and the ninjas. In 21st century the ninjas in the JOEverse need to be intelligence operatives and they should be utilized in this capacity. Hell, even Tommy's, Kimi's, the N.C.L., and the Night Creepers file cards say they have a background in intelligence. Which brings me to our favorite ninja clan. Since the shinobi were spies, private intelligence gathering is very much a thing, it only makes sense that the Arashikage would be one of these private intelligence gathering companies and going forward, (whether it's in the comics, animation, and ESPECIALLY A LIVE ACTION FILM! This is what the Arashikage needs to be and depicted as. When you realize that the ninja were historically always involved in the intelligence community, private intelligence companies do most of the actual spying suddenly ninjas in G.I. JOE make hella sense even down to some of the weapons they would use. Now on to our "favorite," Hollywood executive. When I realized that ninjas could would in G.I. JOE and the ninjas had quasi equivalents in the real world it left me even more frustrated with Lorenzo di Bonaventura and the choices he made with the Snake Eyes movie because dude and the Snake Eyes screenwriters didn't even so much as google the word "ninja," because if they did Snake Eyes would have been a slightly different movie. Let's the basic premise of the film and change a few things. Let's make the Arashikage a private intelligence company. This goes on to explain minor details like how they can afford to live in a castle, have a private jet, and why all these random ninja dudes are around the house. Let's replace the doomsday MacGuffin and giant snakes which can sense your honor with some sensitive information that the Arashikage has pertaining to S.E.'s father Tommy catches him stealing. Tommy makes Snake swear that he won't act on the info, but S.E. does it anyway which fucks up the Arashikage's reputation and causes them to lose a big contract. The Hard Master gets pissed at Tommy and forces him out of the family business. Zartan kills the Hard Master to eliminate competition from E.E.'s private intelligence company and naturally everybody thinks Tommy did it. So we go on with the normal subplot of Tommy infiltrating COBRA to find out who killed his uncle. Now would this film did better than we got. Hell, I don't know. Probably. However, I will say that having films based in realism does make for a more enjoyable film when it's executed properly. There is no Ninja MOS in the military. The whole thing is very silly and honestly, Joe needs a reboot for many reasons. 1. The joes were based off Vietnam era military. Characters like Tunnel Rat and Blowtorch were roles that saw heavy use in Vietnam. Also, Larry Hama was a Vietnam age guy when he served. 2. After 20 years in the Global War on Terror (GWOT) you would think Hasbro would evolve and stop trafficking in Vietnam era stuff and old vehicles. They literally. just re-releaed the Skystriker which isn't even an air platform used anymore. We are like three platforms away from that now. We had the Hornet, Super Hornet, and now the F35 Lightening as air frames used in the Navy. Yet, Hasbro has done nothing but use old stuff and fans have hung to that nostalgia and that's why we keep getting re-cycled junk, repaints, etc. 3. I never understood the repaints or Python Patrol or Ninja force junk. Those were made for kids as gimmicks but now most collectors are adults and don't even use toys the way we did in the 80s and 90s. They are into video games. Hell, kids barely ride bikes anymore. Why would any adult collector want Python Patrol? Companies like Valaverse and Gridiron Studios are giving us more real world platforms and items that are brining us into the modern day and Hasbro is still going back to the 80s well on the daily. 4. There are plenty of civilian jobs that could be part of the Joes that are in actual high speed low drag jobs for the DOD and they are not ninjas. The Joes could even use liaison officers from other agencies to bring in some new blood, not to mention all the high speed low drag jobs in the military that do not have a Joe character representing them. Of the top of my head, I can think of about 25 and most are SOF or SOF-adjacent jobs. I am not talking about the mailroom guy or HR person, I'm talking gun toters, intel, parachutists, divers, medics, etc. This boring 80s ninja nostaligia is gone. The movie Ninja Assassin came out about 10 years ago and was a bit of a dud. That should tell you the ninja thing is silly. Let's not even talk about how MMA has exposed most martial arts as passable at best. My two cents. |
02-08-2023, 11:14 AM | #36 |
Dark Lord of the Mods
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,373
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3. I never understood the repaints or Python Patrol or Ninja force junk. Those were made for kids as gimmicks but now most collectors are adults and don't even use toys the way we did in the 80s and 90s. They are into video games. Hell, kids barely ride bikes anymore. Why would any adult collector want Python Patrol?
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02-08-2023, 11:17 AM | #37 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,449
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Because G.I. Joe is 90 percent nostalgia. Nobody wants a Gung-Ho that looks like a Marine from Fallujah in 2004, we want a Gung-Ho that looks like Vietnam-era Gung-Ho with no shirt and a bright teal vest. We want villains in black leather like Iron Grenadiers, villains with capes and eye patches, heroes with an MOS that involves jet packs and laser rifles. And that means guys with swords and kusarigama, as well.
If you want gritty realism, read Tom Clancy or something. Joe takes place in a universe where an A-10 can go toe-to-toe with an F-14, and that's just the way it is. GI Joe is closer to Darth Vader than Jack Ryan, and I'm fine with that. |
02-08-2023, 11:31 AM | #38 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 8,407
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I feel like if the toyline hadn't died in 1994 I might have stopped with Joe anyway, given how utterly bad the comic ended, the years of Snake-Eyes and Scarlett super hero wank in it beforehand, and how goofy ass Cobra Commander was after he returned from the dead. I feel like at some point Hama just stopped being good as a writer and that continues to this day. |
02-08-2023, 11:39 AM | #39 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 8,407
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3. I never understood the repaints or Python Patrol or Ninja force junk. Those were made for kids as gimmicks but now most collectors are adults and don't even use toys the way we did in the 80s and 90s. They are into video games. Hell, kids barely ride bikes anymore. Why would any adult collector want Python Patrol? Companies like Valaverse and Gridiron Studios are giving us more real world platforms and items that are brining us into the modern day and Hasbro is still going back to the 80s well on the daily.
Stuff like Dusty and Stalker look like they belong back in the 80s and 70s, respectively. As much as the Retro Gung Ho hits that nostalgia bomb for me the regular release still feels more like what a modern Gung Ho would be. Scarlett V1 is meh, but I mean, it makes way more sense than Leotard Scarlett who should stay back in the early 80s. Not that Joe has ever tried to be remotely realistic, but I assumed Classified was the modern line and the ME and O-Ring returns would be the "classic designs". But supposedly the HISS brought in a ton of new fans, who in turn are buying up all the retro looking new Joes we're getting, so more than likely GI Joe is still not bringing in NEW fans and still just bringing back older "new" fans who maybe were out of Joe for a decade or three. They've basically killed any and all modernization of GI Joe at this point, and that seems to sell. Just like how Marvel fans will still buy old comic looking characters but snub most of the new more modern designed stuff. |
02-08-2023, 11:41 AM | #40 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,449
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I always felt like it should have become Storm Shadow's story. He was always more interesting than his martial-brother Gary Stu. Turn it into something like Nth Man, with him and Billy having adventures, with the Joe vs Cobra story raging in the background. You could still churn out action figures and vehicles...
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