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05-20-2022, 10:19 AM | #361 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,429
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Quote:
strike force alpha was pretty much the same - reusing molds just painted differently and 30k stretch goals. (i hate using strike force alpha as a reference, because sheyjekewrljmeyer was just milking the living shit out of the idea so everything was going to be nickel and dimed. we'd have been given the luxury of buying those patches as a stretch goal and no backer count incentives) it seems huge for what it is. like, the steel web guy? all new molds (not looking at skeletron to make sure, and i can justify it being 30k for all new molds) so i can understand the 30k jump. but the henchman everyone is so excited about? no. not 30k. hansy ninja? yes 30k. and that's just the stretch goals i know; but if anything is being reused it shouldnt be that much because it's not buying new molds. Last edited by THEDARKONE508; 05-20-2022 at 10:24 AM.. |
05-20-2022, 11:14 AM | #362 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 923
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Quote:
looking at the figures the parts are being reused for them. so, i dont see how 30k is going to new tooling, and dont understand how painting one style of figure is 30k. so, i dont know.
strike force alpha was pretty much the same - reusing molds just painted differently and 30k stretch goals. (i hate using strike force alpha as a reference, because sheyjekewrljmeyer was just milking the living shit out of the idea so everything was going to be nickel and dimed. we'd have been given the luxury of buying those patches as a stretch goal and no backer count incentives) it seems huge for what it is. like, the steel web guy? all new molds (not looking at skeletron to make sure, and i can justify it being 30k for all new molds) so i can understand the 30k jump. but the henchman everyone is so excited about? no. not 30k. hansy ninja? yes 30k. and that's just the stretch goals i know; but if anything is being reused it shouldnt be that much because it's not buying new molds. The molds for a 100% figure are probably MORE than $30K, and this tracks with both what I have learned from Spector Creative on Youtube (who compares the cost of a 100% tooled figure to a luxury car) and the now defunct Red Laser (who often compared his tooling investments to the price of a house). Let's math. Of the initial 4 figures, which cost $78k to unlock, we had 2 100% tooled figures (Lancer, Volk), plus a new torso, head, and accessories for Uptown, and a new head for Spetsnaz. So I'll call this tooling for 2.3 figures (torsos and heads are simple). 78,000 divided by 2.3 = $33,913 per 100% tooled figure. That is more than each stretch goal. That isn't accounting for packaging, paint masks, labor, and other overhead. And profit. You have the comic add-on (which has to be absorbed in the initial cost because of the all-ins), the patches (which have no monetary goal) and anything else they come up with. So stretch goal #1 cost a new head and accessories, less than $30k. But stretch goal #2 is a 100% tool, about $34K. And so is stretch goal #3. So they use the extra $$ from #1 to help pay for #2, #3, AND larger production numbers of the existing figures. You HAVE to account for that with each unlock, because more TOTAL figures are being made of previously unlocked figures, using more materials. Now they need to start building capital for more tooling, so Henchman is a new head and accessories. They save money to use on the next figure. And would you look at that, the Ninja is another 100% tool after that. I don't want to be a shill for Spector Creative, but he mentions on numerous videos that this is why in retail you see waves of figures where you might get one or two 100% tooled figures and the rest reuse body parts from previous waves. The 100% tool figures cost more to make than the repaints, but they spread the cost through the wave so they are not lopsided. |
05-20-2022, 01:08 PM | #363 |
Veteran Joe
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England
Posts: 878
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Quote:
Its about spreading out the costs.
The molds for a 100% figure are probably MORE than $30K, and this tracks with both what I have learned from Spector Creative on Youtube (who compares the cost of a 100% tooled figure to a luxury car) and the now defunct Red Laser (who often compared his tooling investments to the price of a house). Let's math. Of the initial 4 figures, which cost $78k to unlock, we had 2 100% tooled figures (Lancer, Volk), plus a new torso, head, and accessories for Uptown, and a new head for Spetsnaz. So I'll call this tooling for 2.3 figures (torsos and heads are simple). 78,000 divided by 2.3 = $33,913 per 100% tooled figure. That is more than each stretch goal. That isn't accounting for packaging, paint masks, labor, and other overhead. And profit. You have the comic add-on (which has to be absorbed in the initial cost because of the all-ins), the patches (which have no monetary goal) and anything else they come up with. So stretch goal #1 cost a new head and accessories, less than $30k. But stretch goal #2 is a 100% tool, about $34K. And so is stretch goal #3. So they use the extra $$ from #1 to help pay for #2, #3, AND larger production numbers of the existing figures. You HAVE to account for that with each unlock, because more TOTAL figures are being made of previously unlocked figures, using more materials. Now they need to start building capital for more tooling, so Henchman is a new head and accessories. They save money to use on the next figure. And would you look at that, the Ninja is another 100% tool after that. I don't want to be a shill for Spector Creative, but he mentions on numerous videos that this is why in retail you see waves of figures where you might get one or two 100% tooled figures and the rest reuse body parts from previous waves. The 100% tool figures cost more to make than the repaints, but they spread the cost through the wave so they are not lopsided. |
05-20-2022, 01:21 PM | #364 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,429
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i didnt want to look at this because i wanted ghost to be all new tooling and skeletron be exclusive to that kickstarter but i did.
head and torsos are the only thing different. Last edited by THEDARKONE508; 05-20-2022 at 01:23 PM.. |
05-20-2022, 01:43 PM | #365 |
Veteran Joe
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England
Posts: 878
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To be fair, this is a small start up company. Can't expect miracles for wave 1 and I do think as was explained by someone else, the stretch goals will all balance out cost wise. They are not over charging to fleece us they are covering costs etc
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05-20-2022, 01:53 PM | #366 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 923
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Quote:
There is the additional cost of new paint masks and application techniques. The reused parts are not 1:1 replication of those same parts just in different colors. In fact, it looks like Ghost gets MORE paint apps. Probably not a huge cost but a consideration. So rather than it being 1 mostly repaint to 2 100% tools, it is 2 mostly repaints to 1 100% tool. The cost sharing point stands, though the variables and margins are different. I still want to emphasize that the stretch goals do not pay JUST for the unlocked figure, but spread out costs for overall tool tooling library, extra materials for additional figures from already paid-for tooling, and other overhead costs. |
05-20-2022, 02:10 PM | #367 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,429
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Quote:
Quote:
Ouch. OK...
There is the additional cost of new paint masks and application techniques. The reused parts are not 1:1 replication of those same parts just in different colors. In fact, it looks like Ghost gets MORE paint apps. Probably not a huge cost but a consideration. So rather than it being 1 mostly repaint to 2 100% tools, it is 2 mostly repaints to 1 100% tool. The cost sharing point stands, though the variables and margins are different. I still want to emphasize that the stretch goals do not pay JUST for the unlocked figure, but spread out costs for overall tool tooling library, extra materials for additional figures from already paid-for tooling, and other overhead costs. as it's been said: for the all in to work, it needs to be 10 figures. im not interested in army building or getting doubles of figures. i would hate to change my backing if it doesnt miss that, because i want this whole thing to succeed. the quickest way to get 10 figures to make that work is to lower their stretch goals. 30k, i can understand for 100% new tooling and paint. but not for just paint. |
05-20-2022, 02:14 PM | #368 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 923
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Quote:
dont get me wrong, i feel a lot more of my money is hitting the value with this kickstarter than strike force alpha. i just would like the cost to go down some.
as it's been said: for the all in to work, it needs to be 10 figures. im not interested in army building or getting doubles of figures. i would hate to change my backing if it doesnt miss that, because i want this whole thing to succeed. the quickest way to get 10 figures to make that work is to lower their stretch goals. |
05-20-2022, 02:15 PM | #369 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago
Posts: 842
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05-20-2022, 02:15 PM | #370 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago
Posts: 842
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Quote:
I completely agree with you. Although I'm happy they added wrist swivel. I'm super excited about them. I did the all in and I'm expecting to go past 10 since I'm going to "will" it into happening lol. Even if it does meet that goal, I'll likely do an add in and buy some duplicates for troops.
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