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09-18-2021, 01:04 PM | #181 |
Great White Northerner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canadian Imperium
Posts: 1,431
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Quote:
Quote:
A point of fact the USA does use the Fasces and a lot of other Roman and even esoteric/occult symbolism that the Fascists and Nazis also used and even fictional Cobra. But I like said, was talking about Cobra's uniform style/inspiration, not that every European style military dress collar from WWII is Fascist or whatever the case,lol.
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09-18-2021, 01:34 PM | #182 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Val Verde
Posts: 2,345
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What you think of as a fascist uniform is was basically just what most military uniforms post-WWI looked like. The look of the nazi uniform was taken directly from the British officers uniform of WWI with some Prussian design elements added. Also of note, quite a few future members of the SS either attended or visited Harvard University in the early part of the century…. check out a pic of the Massachusetts State Police uniform sometime.
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09-18-2021, 06:13 PM | #183 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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Here are some photos, various vintage style Cobra trooper modern figures, along with original figure and card art, for review and dissection by all (including myself). Study closely for further discussion. I'll be posting about this later tonight.
Conversation seemed to go a bit aside from CG23's original point/issue that I think was valid without getting caught up into the semantics--though it was good to get clarification and info on historical military wear that likely influenced this toyline. 2021-09-18_04-59-16 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr 2021-09-18_04-59-00 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr |
09-18-2021, 09:53 PM | #184 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 5,437
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nvm
Last edited by rip_cord; 09-20-2021 at 02:28 PM.. Reason: posted out of context |
09-19-2021, 03:17 AM | #185 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 1,185
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The original Cobra Commander and his Cobra military uniforms are indeed Fascist military inspired. Thats how it goes. It was in the comics as well, right down to the Cobra salutes and propaganda and Cobra Youth. Whether you like it or not Cobra was a takeoff of the Marvel's Hydra, Cobra was spinoff of Red Shadows(Action Force) and Cobra was a spinoff of the WWII Nazi Iron Army(Sgt Savage cartoon connected to the Sunbow cartoon with Cobra-La ignored). All Neo-Fascist terrorist organizations,lol.
The Cobra Officer had the fancier Fascist collar not the original Cobra Soldier that was plainer. Hasbro uses the same toros since the 25th line. Hasbro also toned down the collar for the 25th artwork to the simple and ambiguous two bars on the collar. Original: 25th: Last edited by CG82; 09-19-2021 at 03:25 AM.. |
09-25-2021, 01:23 AM | #186 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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So back to this guy. I'm not disagreeing with CG23 about the inspiration of the Cobra collar, and especially its importance the look of the OG Cobra Trooper and Officer. As noted, the commando sweater of Retro Stalker is off model and does detract from it being an ideal base.
I've never really studied the original figure or card art in making any of the blue-shirts in this thread. Instead, all figures were tweaked based on the 25th and POC versions, assuming they were accurate enough, and not really knowing where those versions deviated from the vintage stuff. That's why I put the collages together in a earlier post (and reprinted below), so that I could dissect them a little and see what can be done to Stalker Retro build to improve it (if possible). 2021-09-18_04-59-00 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr 2021-09-18_04-59-16 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr My notes: Really not much in the base uniform itself in the originals, very basic. EXCEPT FOR THE COLLAR. Unfortunately without much else distinguising (talking about base uniform only, excluding arm and thigh greeblies), the collar becomes all that more important to the look--as exemplified by the 2007 25th version. Trying to get a collar to work with the commando sweater mold and its texture won't work--would just look he's got a collared shirt under a sweater, and preppy is not what we're looking for. The sweater texture needs to removed to add a collar. I've done some early testing, and it's not easy and takes a long time--and still don't have results I think I good enough to show. But I'll keep working on that... Otherwise, we can accept the lack of collar and try to elevate other aspects. The lack of collar is reminiscent to the early Sunbow design in a way (in my eyes). In that aspect, we could also play with the coloring of webgear to align with that look. As for the sweater texture: technically neither Joes nor Cobras had that look in vintage so I personally can stomach it for both as a tradeoff for the better proportions and articulation--and keep messing with this build. For the arms, we've got some silver greeblies. I'm not too concerned about this myself at this stage, maybe someone else can easily take this forward. For now, I'm just going to pull a Hasbro, and repaint the arm pockets silver in homage. Boots of the original don't appear to be tradition modern laced-up style. This was introduced in 25th for both OG Joes and Cobras, and personally I prefer the laced-up boots over the other styles. I'm just so use to it from 25th figures that I didn't even care for the more accurate Joe boots on Clutch, Zap and others really. For the Retro, we really don't have much choice in boots/lower legs at this point, and I love the articulation engineering of the new style (ball-hinge feet with swivel boot top). We could use some knee pads it seems. We have kneepads we can use immediately in the form of MTF kneepads. Pics soon... MTF also have matching elbow pads, but elbow pads aren't are part of the vintage figure, card art, or even 25th figure. POC version inherited them from its Shock Trooper base. I've always wanted to try these elbow pads so I've used them regardless. Pics soon... Finally, we've got the thigh gear. Original figure, card art, and 25th figure have a large pocket/pouch on the right, so Retro Stalker build matches there. Original figure, card art, and 25th figure have a knife with two wraparound straps. Retro Stalker build has another pouch. Retro Trooper moved the knife onto the webgear, so a knife at the thigh would be redundant visually. I'm good with the pouch, but later may play with JoyToy thigh gear, which would require cutting off the pouch sculpting (too early for me to do that, need more fodder). The legs look somewhat boring without the straps for the knife (or even a holster), but I think you've see that some big ass knee pads help this out. I haven't really dissected the actual Retro Trooper or POC trooper that much in the notes above, but I've run out of space and time for now. Anyone is free to point things out on these guys, pros and cons. I wanted to concentrate on the Stalker build because messing around with it seems the most interesting, and will be the direction I go for the next few weeks. It's flawed in its lack of collar and its sweater look/texture, but I'd like to see what else we could do with this build before really messing with it hardcore. |
09-25-2021, 09:49 AM | #187 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 330
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One possibility for restoring the knife sheath to the thigh, is to clip off the knife hoops on the webgear and replace them with something from Marauder's--perhaps some shells as a nod to the OG Trooper's left arm.
That's the plan right now for my own person "ultimate" Trooper--Trooper v12 body, Cobra v3 head, Retro webgear and helmet (painted)--as I wasn't keen on having two knives either.
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09-26-2021, 01:28 AM | #188 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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Quote:
One possibility for restoring the knife sheath to the thigh, is to clip off the knife hoops on the webgear and replace them with something from Marauder's--perhaps some shells as a nod to the OG Trooper's left arm.
That's the plan right now for my own person "ultimate" Trooper--Trooper v12 body, Cobra v3 head, Retro webgear and helmet (painted)--as I wasn't keen on having two knives either. Looking for the least painful way to get that look on the Stalker figure build to get some accuracy points back (for points lost with the no collar). I might look at going Stronox and try elastic braid or flexrex. But then cutting off the pouch will be a problem as it is much wider than any knife holster, and finishing the exposed cut surface might be a problem. I'll try one more thing to deal with the collar... |
09-26-2021, 07:32 AM | #189 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,026
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Quote:
Thanks for the suggestion. But if think the construction of the original 25th Cobra Trooper is fine as is. I really like the knife hoops (my favorite bit on that build) and the straps are the most accurate look for that left thigh of all the modern builds.
Looking for the least painful way to get that look on the Stalker figure build to get some accuracy points back (for points lost with the no collar). I might look at going Stronox and try elastic braid or flexrex. But then cutting off the pouch will be a problem as it is much wider than any knife holster, and finishing the exposed cut surface might be a problem. I'll try one more thing to deal with the collar... Making a more accurate ARAH-esque Cobra and Cobra Officer were a big deal to me when working on my customs a few years ago. I used the Dollar General figures as the base for both. For the Cobra (trooper), I moved the ammo pouch from the left leg to the right leg. For the knife sheath, I took the boot sheath and trimmed it to two pieces and glued it to the left leg. The greebles on the Cobra's arms are two bullets and a garrote. For the bullets, I trimmed off two bullets from a Roadblock vest, and for the garrote, I made a simple resin cast from a Cobra Bazooka Trooper web gear. I'm probably one of the few that really like the 25th Cobra figures. Even with their smaller helmets, I think they capture that Sunbow look. So, my blue shirt army has plenty of 25th figures in the background. I also really like the Retro figure's torso. It's the fore arms and legs that kill the Retro figure for me, but I think using some 25th legs and some other fore arms that I can make a retro figure look great. I'm with you about the 25th figure's knife sheath, not only does it look cool, it's probably the best feature of the figure. One thing I would like to do with a custom Cobra is to make a removeable gun from the web gear. I have those books with the original design sketches, and if memory serves me correct, the weapon is not an actual (real-world) pistol. It's some other kind of made-up pistol. So, I should be able to take a Star Wars pistol and trim it down to fit a tab holster device. Jason |
09-26-2021, 10:18 AM | #190 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 330
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Quote:
Thanks for the suggestion. But if think the construction of the original 25th Cobra Trooper is fine as is. I really like the knife hoops (my favorite bit on that build) and the straps are the most accurate look for that left thigh of all the modern builds.
Looking for the least painful way to get that look on the Stalker figure build to get some accuracy points back (for points lost with the no collar). I might look at going Stronox and try elastic braid or flexrex. But then cutting off the pouch will be a problem as it is much wider than any knife holster, and finishing the exposed cut surface might be a problem. I'll try one more thing to deal with the collar... That said, *I* am modding a 25th Trooper, but I'm leaving the thigh sheath alone, since it's accurate like you say. The knife sheath on the Retro webgear (which I'm using), however, is not (and is visually redundant), so I plan to remove it and replace it with something from Marauder's, perhaps some ammo/shells as a callback to the original RAH Cobra's left arm. Hopefully that's clear now!
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