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07-25-2021, 11:27 AM | #41 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 10,816
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Captain America, Iron Man and Thor were not A-list properties. As comic books, they were second-stringers and on the verge of cancellation or total revamps time and again in the '80s and '90s, even while G.I. Joe was kicking their butts in sales for years. Very little merchandise was put out for those three superheroes even while G.I. Joe never lost its dedicated section in toy stores.
Yet one of the most successful movie franchises in history was built on those mid-tier comic books with their small fan bases. How was it done? First and foremost, by staying faithful to the original comic book stories in look, fact and feel. The characters were cast with actors who looked like they were ripped directly from the comic book pages, just like Chris Reeve was with Superman. That didn't prevent them from casting actors who had movie star qualities to them, good looks and charisma. There's a giant pool of out-of-work actors to choose from, so it's never all that difficult to find one who looks the part. And the costume design stuck to the original, bright color schemes, not putting them in all black leather to try and be "cool." As for the storyline, those characters' origins were told almost step-by-step in synch with the original comic book plots, with minor updates to modernize things like the Vietnam War. The same exact villains were brought on, similarly adapted very faithfully, in all their weirdness. The filmmakers knew that something worked about those plots. The characters were a hit for a while, even if their popularity sagged later. And the basic tone of the comic books remained. They didn't make things too dark, gritty or violent. They stuck with the family-friendly tone of the Marvel comics. The filmmakers knew one thing, if you win over the fans, you have a solid base of support for your movie. The one advantage you have to adapting pre-existing content is that you have a built-in fan base. If you turn those people off, there's absolutely no reason to adapt a pre-existing character at all. You may as well start from scratch. Once you win over the fans, they bring in their families and friends, and start creating good word-of-mouth. Then, if your movie is done well on the basic writing and directing level, the word-of-mouth continues through the non-fans. And, if you keep delivering quality as the MCU generally did, you actually create NEW fans who love these characters solely from their movie appearances, even if they never read the original comics. A formula that's straightforward, simple, logical, effective and was completely ignored by the makers of the three G.I. Joe movies. |
07-25-2021, 12:26 PM | #42 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: CA
Posts: 1
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I've been lurking here for a while after getting back into G.I. Joe, thanks to the promotion of the movie, but after seeing it, I thought it was kinda weird.
For the good, I thought Henry Golding and the rest of the cast were actually pretty solid. None of the performances were bad at all, and the 4 leads (Golding, Koji, Abe, and Hira) were all convincing and commanding. It might be controversial, but I think Henry Golding absolutely proved he had the chops to pull off a Snake Eyes that talks. The casting was for the most part the thing that carried this movie. They chose good locations that made the movie visually appealing. From the Fishery to Tokyo, it was all visually interesting. For the bad, I thought far too often the writing was inconsistent. The action had too much shaky cam going on. Too many characters exist for the sole purpose of justifying this movie being a "Joe" Movie. You can't tell me that Hard and Blind Masters really did anything of substance. Scarlett's entire appearance could have been condensed down to her last scene and probably would have been better. Baroness was severely underused, despite seemingly setting her up for something important. She presented the most opportunity for conflict, and they never let her do that for what ever reason. And for the Ugly, the story choices they made far too often ended up being so bad. Snake Eyes is unlikable. Storm Shadow is an absolute buffoon. Akiko never quite presents the challenge to Snake Eyes she is conceptualized to bring. The Arashikage don't justify their existence. It's pretty disappointing that in a G.I. Joe movie, some guy named Kenta is probably the most efficient character in all of it. And this might be a minor nitpick, but I REALLY would have liked some of these characters being more recognizable. I wish Kenta was Sei Tin. I wish Akiko was Jinx or Junko. Snake Eyes' characterization probably would have benefitted if he was black ops like MCU Killmonger in his pre Arashikage life instead of a Prize Fighter. This whole movie felt like a spec script that vaguely sounded like a Snake Eyes movie. And when Hasbro bought it, they crammed the Joe IP all over it. In all sincerity, F9 was unironically a better "Joe" movie than this. All that being said, I still think it was a fun enough time, and a decent enough movie. C-. |
07-25-2021, 03:36 PM | #43 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 414
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Quote:
I also want to add that there's a pervasive "Manbaby Mentality" when talking about films like Snake Eyes.
No, it's NOT for you. It was NEVER intended for you. It was NEVER intended to be like ARAH or a replacement. What matters isn't that manbaby fans get into this movie...it's that the general audience gets into the movie and cares. The Transformers point is very much on the ball. As someone who is also a Transformers fan, I cannot even begin to tell you how much Transformers benefitted from movies that, were TOTAL SHIT, yet made big bucks at the box office. There's a reason why GI Joe fucking died twice during the timespan Transformers kept growing and growing. No one cared about GI Joe and we fans couldn't buy enough GI Joe to keep it alive. If it's only fans buying Classified, I'd wager in two years time the line will probably die again. It's unsustainable without new blood coming into the franchise. Fans like me will at least give Snake Eyes a chance. Hell, I gave all the Transformers movies a chance even if I knew they were almost all going to be hot garbage after Revenge of the Fallen. I'm mature enough to understand that this is merely just a different kind of GI Joe, not meant to be a replacement for the GI Joe I grew up with. **IF** this movie does well and we actually get a second one, GI Joe is certainly going to go places. As long as kids keep buying and turning into new fans, it's likely the brand will take the trajectory that Transformers did. |
07-25-2021, 05:36 PM | #44 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: FL
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
Now if they had gone and stuck to the original comic book story would this movie have magically done better? Really it likely wouldn't have. GI Joe is a mostly unknown franchise world wide and it's been mostly low tier or dead, only being popular 40 years ago. Quote:
Captain America, Iron Man and Thor were not A-list properties. As comic books, they were second-stringers and on the verge of cancellation or total revamps time and again in the '80s and '90s, even while G.I. Joe was kicking their butts in sales for years. Very little merchandise was put out for those three superheroes even while G.I. Joe never lost its dedicated section in toy stores.
Yet one of the most successful movie franchises in history was built on those mid-tier comic books with their small fan bases. How was it done? First and foremost, by staying faithful to the original comic book stories in look, fact and feel. The characters were cast with actors who looked like they were ripped directly from the comic book pages, just like Chris Reeve was with Superman. That didn't prevent them from casting actors who had movie star qualities to them, good looks and charisma. There's a giant pool of out-of-work actors to choose from, so it's never all that difficult to find one who looks the part. And the costume design stuck to the original, bright color schemes, not putting them in all black leather to try and be "cool." As for the storyline, those characters' origins were told almost step-by-step in synch with the original comic book plots, with minor updates to modernize things like the Vietnam War. The same exact villains were brought on, similarly adapted very faithfully, in all their weirdness. The filmmakers knew that something worked about those plots. The characters were a hit for a while, even if their popularity sagged later. And the basic tone of the comic books remained. They didn't make things too dark, gritty or violent. They stuck with the family-friendly tone of the Marvel comics. The filmmakers knew one thing, if you win over the fans, you have a solid base of support for your movie. The one advantage you have to adapting pre-existing content is that you have a built-in fan base. If you turn those people off, there's absolutely no reason to adapt a pre-existing character at all. You may as well start from scratch. Once you win over the fans, they bring in their families and friends, and start creating good word-of-mouth. Then, if your movie is done well on the basic writing and directing level, the word-of-mouth continues through the non-fans. And, if you keep delivering quality as the MCU generally did, you actually create NEW fans who love these characters solely from their movie appearances, even if they never read the original comics. A formula that's straightforward, simple, logical, effective and was completely ignored by the makers of the three G.I. Joe movies. Going back and making a movie true to the origin comics is not going to magically make GI Joe live action works and as it is, it would never work for a film franchise as it has zero international appeal. 80s era style gungo ho America soldier guys saving the world, it's something of a joke to the rest of the world, why stuff of the likes of Team America lampooned the macho US action movies of old. GI Joe was a unique product of its time, it likely would never work as a modern live action film universe no matter what people think. It would need a huge reimagining to bring in new fans. Staying true to the source material, even Marvel often doesn't do this, but they know they don't have too, cause much of the fan base they have never read a single comic book. And GI Joe? Again a comic book from 40 years ago who had so so sales, how many of those readers make up the population of movie goers who is going to make a dent at the box office? I think it's time they realize the GI Joe just isn't gonna work as a live action franchise, stick to cartoons and stuff that can push toys. Last edited by PanzerKrake; 07-25-2021 at 05:44 PM.. |
07-25-2021, 07:48 PM | #45 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 414
|
Quote:
Quote:
Now if they had gone and stuck to the original comic book story would this movie have magically done better? Really it likely wouldn't have.
Quote:
GI Joe is a mostly unknown franchise world wide and it's been mostly low tier or dead, only being popular 40 years ago.
Quote:
This all completely ignores that GI Joe was a product of it's time, lightning in a bottle and highly centralized in one region of the world. The comparisons don't even match up when you go back to the 80s as Marvel and company never pushed to sell toys, because they had no stake in the toy markets. Hasbro is a toy company and wanted to sell toys. As for the height of the GI Joe comics, it was not long lived, it was a huge hit for first couple years but sales dropped like a brick soon after and it was selling under most popular and b-tier comic book hero floppies. Also everyone knew of all these characters, even those who weren't fans, know who Captain America is even before the MCU came about. The comics and their legacies never went away, while GI Joe slowly died and became irrelevant.
Going back and making a movie true to the origin comics is not going to magically make GI Joe live action works and as it is, it would never work for a film franchise as it has zero international appeal. 80s era style gungo ho America soldier guys saving the world, it's something of a joke to the rest of the world, why stuff of the likes of Team America lampooned the macho US action movies of old. GI Joe was a unique product of its time, it likely would never work as a modern live action film universe no matter what people think. It would need a huge reimagining to bring in new fans. Staying true to the source material, even Marvel often doesn't do this, but they know they don't have too, cause much of the fan base they have never read a single comic book. And GI Joe? Again a comic book from 40 years ago who had so so sales, how many of those readers make up the population of movie goers who is going to make a dent at the box office? I think it's time they realize the GI Joe just isn't gonna work as a live action franchise, stick to cartoons and stuff that can push toys. |
07-25-2021, 08:23 PM | #46 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ontario
Posts: 13
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This movie will not even break even. What on earth makes anyone think a non-fanboy wants to see this movie? GI Joe is simply not a viable Hollywood franchise, and this will be the last Joe movie ever made. And the woke ARAH comic will soon follow in demise. The brand will be done after 2022.
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07-25-2021, 08:46 PM | #47 |
Stockings and heels life
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 488
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Quote:
It could be all manner of things. The brand and IP isn't as popular as we like to think it is. Not the right time and place. Not exciting enough. I mean damn if any of you paid attention to the Transformers side during 2007 before the movie came out it was full of people shitting on the designs because it "wasn't G1 enough." But it was the right place at the right time, just a good amount of throwback to Transformers, exciting and fun to watch. But it is NOTHING like G1 Transformers. The only things recognizeable are Optimus Prime's head, which is a fairly faithful recreation of his G1 look, and that Bumblebee is a shade of yellow. Also, no. The MCU wasn't "like the comics." It drew inspiration, but the MCU was key to move in it's own direction, telling it's own stories. They may have had throwback to comic fans, but you're being very dishonest if you're trying to argue that they followed the comics to the letter. I was there day 1 for Iron Man. Saw every MCU movie since, so I have a pretty good grasp of what's in there. It could very well be that the idea of GI Joe is just hard to sell. Military Fantasy is a tough thing to do without making them a group of mercenaries perhaps. Can you actually prove this though? Despite being a HOT seller in 2020, GI Joe and Furreal Freinds were the two top selling brands in the Emerging Brands segment of Hasbro's Q4 2020 report. It made about 155 million USD during that quarter. In contrast, Franchise Brands which include Transformers, Magic: The Gathering and Nerf, made a cool 705 million USD in that period. What part of this do you, or anyone understand? GI Joe is an EMERGING Brand. In other words it's not a brand that Hasbro relies on for the survival of the company, not yet at least. If GI Joe dies it's literally dust they brush off the table. If Transformers dies, the company would be STRUGGLING to prop up a brand to keep the company profitable. It's only factually untrue if you refuse to look at data and continue to live in a fantasy land. Last edited by PlanckEpoch; 07-25-2021 at 08:53 PM.. |
07-25-2021, 10:25 PM | #48 |
Founding Adm1n
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,210
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Well I saw it yesterday. My thoughts can be summed up simply. It was OK at best. Thankfully it was not a steaming pile like most of di Buenaventura's tripe like the Bay Transformers Movies of the Dumpster Fire that was ROC.
That said I wish people like him would pull their heads out of their asses and realize that you can take an existing mythology and modernize it and make a few changes that are needed and leave their Revisionist Egos at the door. But no, can't have that here and that's why this was just OK and not great or amazing. The best thing Hasbro and Paramount can do is dump di Buenaventura, starting over and doing what Marvel has done instead of what Hollywood and the Egos in it always do with an established property and remake it in their own image.
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07-25-2021, 11:00 PM | #49 |
Bald Master
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
Posts: 15,130
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I liked it much better upon 2nd viewing, but I still have some gripes.
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07-26-2021, 12:22 AM | #50 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 444
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Saw it today with my 10 year old. He thought it was awesome. I really liked it as well. If this came out back in the 80s I’d have loved it then. The story is pretty strong and consistent. Revenge, redemption. Good basic stuff.
My son started asking me what I thought would happen in the next movie? That hasn’t happened since the MCU movies. This film wasn’t my vision of a Joe movie but if they can focus on characters and build off this first movie maybe this could be the Joes’ version of Iron Man 1? I’m just really excited to see one of my kids excited about the Gi Joe universe.
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