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06-06-2020, 09:02 AM | #1 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 13
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I just finished the Arise, Serpentor, Arise 5 Parter in my GI Joe re-watch and I don’t think the Joes ever took more Ls in the Sunbow series than there.
By their nature 5 Parters have the Joes losing a lot but here it’s even more staggering. The plot revolves around Cobra collecting DNA of famous (mostly dead) world leaders to create Serpentor. Most episodes revolve around the Joes guarding the final resting places of these leaders. In every instance Cobra successfully gets the DNA of the leader except ONE: Sun Tzu, and even then they briefly captured it. It is just the case they used to capture the DNA was damaged by Sgt. Slaughter so it was not usable. Speaking of Slaughter they also capture his DNA to replace Sun Tzu's DNA. That one is again rendered unusable when Cobra is in the process of creating Serpentor. At one point Hawk is going over all the DNA Cobra has stolen. He lists the battles lost that we've seen over the course of this 5 parter then says "dozens more". By dozens lets take it to mean at two dozen (24). By definition this would be the lowest amount he could mean. There are at least 6 battles the Joes fought over the course of this 5 parter (I didn't bother counting) only 2 of which they won (the battle for Sun Tzu's DNA, and liberating Slaughter's DNA). So out of at least 30 cases, the Joes were only successful TWICE. Worse still most of these cases Hawk says they didn't even know about until after the DNA was stolen which is an even worse failure in my book. For G.I. Joe that's a win percentage of less than 7%. And to cap it all off Cobra succeeds in their grand ambition of creating Serpentor, who at least in theory is supposed to be the greatest threat the Joe team has ever faced. The Joe team celebrating at the very end of part 5 aside, Cobra kicked G.I. Joe's butt in Arise, Serpentor, Arise. |
06-06-2020, 10:34 AM | #2 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 10,010
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The Joe’s suffered the biggest loss in Retaliation when 99% of the team was wiped out.
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06-06-2020, 10:59 AM | #3 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 6,169
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The Joes actually lose in the episode Excalibur. There's no qualified victory. No celebration at the end. Their goal in the episode is to set up a radar system in the UK. Cobra's goal is to destroy it. Cobra does, in fact, destroy it (fairly easily). Duke reflects at the end that the Joes were lucky that the sword Excalibur was returned to the lady in the lake and the entire UK wasn't destroyed (which wasn't part of Cobra's plan, so it's not really a defeat for CC).
Some of the 80s shows feature at least one episode where the good guys outright lose. It's rare, but it does happen. One of the interesting things about GI Joe's companion show, The Transformers, is that until the movie resets the universe, the Decepticons are consistently winning the meta war. They steal enough energy from Earth to revitalize Cybertron. They completely take it over (forcing the Autobots to retreat to / build moon bases). They conquer planets outside of Earth (two episodes feature offworld adventures on planets controlled by Megatron). They might lose or look foolish in individual episodes, but they are winning the war. I always find that interesting when I rewatch it. GI Joe features the opposite arc. Cobra grows less and less powerful over the course of the show (until they are forced to resort to cheap tactics just to raise money to stay alive).
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06-06-2020, 11:15 AM | #4 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 13
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Quote:
The Joes actually lose in the episode Excalibur. There's no qualified victory. No celebration at the end. Their goal in the episode is to set up a radar system in the UK. Cobra's goal is to destroy it. Cobra does, in fact, destroy it (fairly easily). Duke reflects at the end that the Joes were lucky that the sword Excalibur was returned to the lady in the lake and the entire UK wasn't destroyed (which wasn't part of Cobra's plan, so it's not really a defeat for CC).
Some of the 80s shows feature at least one episode where the good guys outright lose. It's rare, but it does happen. One of the interesting things about GI Joe's companion show, The Transformers, is that until the movie resets the universe, the Decepticons are consistently winning the meta war. They steal enough energy from Earth to revitalize Cybertron. They completely take it over (forcing the Autobots to retreat to / build moon bases). They conquer planets outside of Earth (two episodes feature offworld adventures on planets controlled by Megatron). They might lose or look foolish in individual episodes, but they are winning the war. I always find that interesting when I rewatch it. GI Joe features the opposite arc. Cobra grows less and less powerful over the course of the show (until they are forced to resort to cheap tactics just to raise money to stay alive). I have an unopened complete series of Transformers (Shout Factory) sitting on my counter as we speak. I grew up with these cartoons and even had the Rhino sets previously. I haven’t watched some since the Rhino sets first came out like 15 years ago (time flies). I just got a rare out of our be copy of the Inhumanoids Complete Series from the UK so after I finish my Joe re-watch and Inhumanoids I may have to finally revisit the G1 cartoon On the topic of wins and losses some of my favorite episodes don’t really have a win/lose dynamic or at least that isn’t the main takeaway from the episode. But sometimes I’m blown away by how flawed an elite counterterrorism unit can be. There is just no way one can say the Joe team comes out of Arise, Serpentor, Arise looking good. I didn’t even get into Serpentor briefly capturing Washington DC. |
06-06-2020, 11:32 AM | #5 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 2,052
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Quote:
I just finished the Arise, Serpentor, Arise 5 Parter in my GI Joe re-watch and I don’t think the Joes ever took more Ls in the Sunbow series than there.
By their nature 5 Parters have the Joes losing a lot but here it’s even more staggering. The plot revolves around Cobra collecting DNA of famous (mostly dead) world leaders to create Serpentor. Most episodes revolve around the Joes guarding the final resting places of these leaders. In every instance Cobra successfully gets the DNA of the leader except ONE: Sun Tzu, and even then they briefly captured it. It is just the case they used to capture the DNA was damaged by Sgt. Slaughter so it was not usable. Speaking of Slaughter they also capture his DNA to replace Sun Tzu's DNA. That one is again rendered unusable when Cobra is in the process of creating Serpentor. At one point Hawk is going over all the DNA Cobra has stolen. He lists the battles lost that we've seen over the course of this 5 parter then says "dozens more". By dozens lets take it to mean at two dozen (24). By definition this would be the lowest amount he could mean. There are at least 6 battles the Joes fought over the course of this 5 parter (I didn't bother counting) only 2 of which they won (the battle for Sun Tzu's DNA, and liberating Slaughter's DNA). So out of at least 30 cases, the Joes were only successful TWICE. Worse still most of these cases Hawk says they didn't even know about until after the DNA was stolen which is an even worse failure in my book. For G.I. Joe that's a win percentage of less than 7%. And to cap it all off Cobra succeeds in their grand ambition of creating Serpentor, who at least in theory is supposed to be the greatest threat the Joe team has ever faced. The Joe team celebrating at the very end of part 5 aside, Cobra kicked G.I. Joe's butt in Arise, Serpentor, Arise. That said the Joes did get their asses handed to them until Serpentor's defects caused him to use nothing but force on his assault on DC. I also watched Operation Dragonfire - It was slightly annoying that Sgt. Slaughter was basically in charge of everything and the lack of any other Joe character development. Another fun, interesting plot though and it was cool to see how Scoop's character evolved, the birth of Python Patrol, CC getting his revenge on Serpentor (although he said it was only temporary in the cartoon). The only disappointing thing was that CC was restored to a snake man like he was presented in The Movie rather than just becoming human again - they could of killed the Cobra-La nonsense right there! |
06-06-2020, 12:11 PM | #6 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 13
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Quote:
I watched Arise, Serpentor Arise two weeks ago - I gotta say I really enjoyed the plot line and the idea of creating a Cobra Emperor utilizing the DNA of all time great historic figures. The fact that they lost Sun Tzu's DNA which caused Serpentor to lack strategy, be a poor tactician and lack wisdom or cunning was a great twist - something that obviously flew over my head the last time I watched it as a young kid. I feel you could use that same plot line today and make it a GI Joe live action movie.
That said the Joes did get their asses handed to them until Serpentor's defects caused him to use nothing but force on his assault on DC. I also watched Operation Dragonfire - It was slightly annoying that Sgt. Slaughter was basically in charge of everything and the lack of any other Joe character development. Another fun, interesting plot though and it was cool to see how Scoop's character evolved, the birth of Python Patrol, CC getting his revenge on Serpentor (although he said it was only temporary in the cartoon). The only disappointing thing was that CC was restored to a snake man like he was presented in The Movie rather than just becoming human again - they could of killed the Cobra-La nonsense right there! For a serious bad guy who is also competent I’ll take Storm Shadow. Also, Zartan when he is portrayed as such. For those guys I also loved how they had somewhat more complex characters than some others. SS having a distinct sense of honor to him and Zartan being a mercenary rather than Cobra through and through. |
06-06-2020, 08:26 PM | #7 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,266
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Quote:
Then everyone goes to Cobra Island on 3 Tomahawks that turn into one when they get there. I assumed Sgt. Slaughter was in command of a smaller GI JOE force in Dragonfire because after the events of GI JOE THE MOVIE, what was left of Cobra was slowly rebuilding (Half their leadership disappeared, which is why Destro was outright second in command) and they were considered less of a threat. This is maybe implied with Victory at Volcania where its revealed that General Hawk had been relegated to commanding an R&R base. |
06-06-2020, 08:52 PM | #8 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 13
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Quote:
I think the dozens more was just a reference to the DNA cobra stole that GI JOE didn't even know about not any battles. Remember Zarana partially burnt the list that the Joes acquired. The Joes didn't even know what Cobra wanted from the tombs.
Then everyone goes to Cobra Island on 3 Tomahawks that turn into one when they get there. I assumed Sgt. Slaughter was in command of a smaller GI JOE force in Dragonfire because after the events of GI JOE THE MOVIE, what was left of Cobra was slowly rebuilding (Half their leadership disappeared, which is why Destro was outright second in command) and they were considered less of a threat. This is maybe implied with Victory at Volcania where its revealed that General Hawk had been relegated to commanding an R&R base. I like to imagine there is a deleted scene where Major Bludd or someone goes to collect Chairman Mao’s DNA in China. The place is completely deserted and Bludd cautiously approaches Mao’s body. Then he says out loud, “Hello Joes? Really no one here? Founding tyrant of the current government for the largest nation on Earth...really no one?” then he just takes the DNA and it cuts to the next scene. |
04-02-2021, 01:55 PM | #9 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boulder
Posts: 1,577
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I'm not a cartoon guy, I've just read the comics a lot, but this is a cool topic. In the comics the Joes suffer massive losses during their version of the Gulf War, the "Benzheen War."
Quote:
By dozens lets take it to mean at two dozen (24). By definition this would be the lowest amount he could mean. There are at least 6 battles the Joes fought over the course of this 5 parter (I didn't bother counting) only 2 of which they won (the battle for Sun Tzu's DNA, and liberating Slaughter's DNA). So out of at least 30 cases, the Joes were only successful TWICE. Worse still most of these cases Hawk says they didn't even know about until after the DNA was stolen which is an even worse failure in my book.
Quote:
One of the interesting things about GI Joe's companion show, The Transformers, is that until the movie resets the universe, the Decepticons are consistently winning the meta war. They steal enough energy from Earth to revitalize Cybertron. They completely take it over (forcing the Autobots to retreat to / build moon bases). They conquer planets outside of Earth (two episodes feature offworld adventures on planets controlled by Megatron). They might lose or look foolish in individual episodes, but they are winning the war. I always find that interesting when I rewatch it.
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05-12-2021, 08:47 PM | #10 |
Grail Knight
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 959
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Quote:
The Joes actually lose in the episode Excalibur. There's no qualified victory. No celebration at the end. Their goal in the episode is to set up a radar system in the UK. Cobra's goal is to destroy it. Cobra does, in fact, destroy it (fairly easily). Duke reflects at the end that the Joes were lucky that the sword Excalibur was returned to the lady in the lake and the entire UK wasn't destroyed (which wasn't part of Cobra's plan, so it's not really a defeat for CC).
I think Lights, Camera, Cobra and Cold Slither also count as Cobra wins, though not to the same extent. In L,C,C, Cobra's main concern is protecting the location of their secret base. GI Joe might win the final battle and destroy the Firebat, but they're never even aware of the homing device. Cobra's secret is safe at the end. In Cold Slither, Cobra is on the brink of total collapse and manages to rebound completely. I'd call that an L for the Joes. |
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