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01-09-2009, 12:58 AM | #291 |
Cobra Officer, 1st Lt.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 446
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Quote:
Well, like I said before, with the potential fines for each violation, I'll bet stores will comply with this law, or stop selling toys and children's items altogether.
And yes, I am a lawyer. Feel free to read my earlier posts. But I agree with you that everyone should calm down. This is a new law, it hasn't even gone into effect yet. There is no way to tell what sort of enforcement there will be. There is no caselaw interpreting this statute yet either, so just read the text of the law carefully and you will know just as much as any attorney. And I too agree that it could take years and even the Supreme Court to interpret its full repercussions. I've also had to read the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and my company started seeing things in that law that clearly wasn't there but was a matter of their interpretation in efforts of being compliant with Federal law. Whether the over protective mothers who lobbied for this law like it or not, our society is built on free commerce and the freedom to sell our possessions. The collectible toy community will survive untouched. |
01-09-2009, 01:27 AM | #292 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where people are De-evolved
Posts: 2,125
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i wonder if some vintage Joes could fall under the category of antqiues, You aren't supposed to sell electronics (like old lamps) that have cloth insulation on the wires, but you can if they are antqiues. You aren't supposed to sell Ivory, and certain animal pelts, but again you can if they are antqiues.
I don't know.., if this law prevents even one kid from going to the hospital or something, it's worth it. Our pass time really is pretty trivial guys |
01-09-2009, 01:41 AM | #293 |
pegwarmer.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The MI
Posts: 2,287
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no, no, no... you're not supposed to OWN Super Power figures.
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01-09-2009, 02:28 AM | #294 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 109
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01-09-2009, 12:04 PM | #295 |
PhilDPino
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 238
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No. But I've been on the CPSIA website reading all the different corespondance between companies and the people incharge of enforcing the law and the intrpretations laid down by this agency. It is all public record.
I am a concern citizen and business person. I am doing the research as my civic duty to harass the gov'ment for being stupid. I plan to have my facts straight for my petition. I am posting my findings here as a courtesy to all those who want to know. Last edited by PhilDpino; 01-09-2009 at 01:09 PM.. |
01-09-2009, 12:09 PM | #296 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: So. Cal, the Inland Empire
Posts: 5,722
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Uh-oh... I'm in trouble. I own them and ate my second set! :-O
In all seriousness though, many of us grew up in the 70's & 80's playing with toys that may or may not have had lead in them and, speaking for myself, I turned out alright... ... In all seriousness though, many of us grew up in the 70's & 80's playing with toys that may or may not have had lead in them and, speaking for myself, I turned out alright... Oh. Crap. |
01-09-2009, 12:22 PM | #297 |
487121987219863.2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The parade grounds of electric dreams
Posts: 2,117
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Quote:
Uh-oh... I'm in trouble. I own them and ate my second set! :-O
In all seriousness though, many of us grew up in the 70's & 80's playing with toys that may or may not have had lead in them and, speaking for myself, I turned out alright... ... In all seriousness though, many of us grew up in the 70's & 80's playing with toys that may or may not have had lead in them and, speaking for myself, I turned out alright... Oh. Crap. My Mom told me that as kids she and her siblings used to break open thermometers and play with the mercury drops. My how times have changed.
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01-09-2009, 01:03 PM | #298 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: WA State
Posts: 348
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Quote:
I personally did not read anything in the document that said reselling a child product (via ebay, flee market or goodwill store) will be illegal or banned. In article 216 it clearly states it is illegal to sell recalled products. Thus, I originally stated that the media source that reported this greatly exaggerated it. This is a law banning the sell of recalled products. As well as set guidelines to determine what causes that item to be recalled, ie lead paint etc.
For a better idea of what the actual effect of this law will have, check out this Wall Street Journal article: New Lead Rules May Crimp Those Thrift-Shop Bargains - WSJ.com |
01-09-2009, 01:08 PM | #299 |
PhilDPino
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 238
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Quote:
i wonder if some vintage Joes could fall under the category of antqiues, You aren't supposed to sell electronics (like old lamps) that have cloth insulation on the wires, but you can if they are antqiues. You aren't supposed to sell Ivory, and certain animal pelts, but again you can if they are antqiues.
I don't know.., if this law prevents even one kid from going to the hospital or something, it's worth it. Our pass time really is pretty trivial guys 1) Because at the time of effect (10 Feb 09) many items on the shelf has already been manufacture without complying with testing standards because they were manufactured before that date. But per current intrepretation by the general council of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the Gov. enitity incharged of enforcing this law: the law, the way it is written, prevents them "the flexibility" to read this law other than as being retroactive to items produced before this date. But what this mean to Hasbro and such is vague in some place and strict as hell on others. They are currently viewing this as mean that anything any everything they have manufactured and marketed primarily to the age 12 and under (even if there is an adult market for such items) must now be tested, including what is on the self right now. Toy manufactures have complained that this is logistical nightmare. Also the CPSA has not finalized and don't foresee a finalization of the criteria (does testing apply to the finish product or individual parts, can they test a sample from the warehouse or does it need to also come from what is already on the shelf as well, what is the sampling requires, one from every state?)for testing before the 10 Feb 09 deadline. If the deadline hits and nothing has been finalized this most likely mean they will have to pull every inventory from the shelf. Also this presents a Sarbannes-Oxley nightmare. Having to sample and/or pull all inventory that automatically qualifies as "hazardous material" because it doesn't have documentation presents a fiancial account presentation for publically trade companies. Some of the method that has been presented to them for accounting can be construed as lying to the public or fruad. 2) Small business that manufacture hand made toys will be required to present the same certifications as big businesses. With test running as much as $200 to $300 per test and if lets say a bead maker has 10 color beads for one of her style jewelry she has to test each individual bead separately to meet both the 0.1% phthalate and the 600 ppm lead requirements. That is upward to $3000 for one style. Now what if she has 10 styles. Whit the CPSA refusing to return emails or phone calls to answer questions, many small business have no clue wheter a test on a part that is used universally used on other style satisify the require or does each style have to be tested also. Many companies have interpreted this law as requireing the latter. If so our bead jewerly make now needs to shell out $30,000 just to continue selling at the arts fair or online. Many small business have decide to sell their remaining inventory before the deadline and close shop either permanently or until exemptions for them can be resolved. 10 feb 09 has been refered to as National Bankruptcy Day by a group setting up a protest. On a Joe related note: Now if you like to customize Joes for sale, will you have to comply to these stardards. You are manufacturing. but, you're most likely marketing to an adult collector audience but your are using a mold originally geared for children under this law. How does this affect you. Well CPSA are not returning calls. 3) The extreme short notice between passage and implimentation has been criticized as insufficient lead time for business small and large to comply before deadline, hence the possibilitiy of a recall of current store inventory. Also under attack is the fact that certain 2008 deadlines have already come and gone before the formal announcement of the laws passage. Almost like saying "Hey by the way we just past a law that affects you a couple weeks ago and forgot to tell you. here's your deadline to appeal or meet a standard. By the way, that was yesterday." 4) This law affects sellers and distributors as well as manufacturers. As of 10 feb 2009 it will be illegal to "sell, offer for sell, manufacture of sale, distribute in commerce, or import into the united states" anything considered Hazardous Material and thus banned retroactively (due to lack of certificates) because of this law. http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/advisory/317.pdf. Read this memo from CPSA Chairman Nord. Also their has been increased fines and jail time for those found guilty of violating this law (granted the law does not give provisions for enforcement other than increasein the CPSA's budget and allowing them to hire 500 more people.) So you can be held liable. This law is not only unenforcable it promotes illegal activity and crime thru black market sales. It might just be me but I think Laws should prevent crime. Not encourage them. 5) Also out of fear of violating this law many stores like Goodwill and the Salvation Army are consider not selling clothing, bedding, books, toys, electronics, etc. that are geared towards or can be misviewed as geared towards the ages 12 and under. This destroys an avenue for the poor and disenfranchised to provide for their children. Already many of these places are refusing to accept new donations and are planning to throw away their remaining inventory which... 6) excerbates our landfill problems. I am all for laws that protects our children, but they should not be written and passed withoiut thought by a congress in fear of public backlash during an election year. At the very least, they should make sense and be implemented properly. Last edited by PhilDpino; 01-09-2009 at 01:17 PM.. |
01-09-2009, 01:21 PM | #300 |
Mortal Enemy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Site B
Posts: 32,666
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I figured this would be a nice thread to unveil my new sig, for a kinder and gentler era.
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