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04-16-2017, 09:58 PM | #21891 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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I mean, if you're walking through the jungle and accidentally stumble on an enemy patrol within fifty feet I wouldn't mind having this guy on point, but if there's anyone left standing when that thing runs empty, you better have a good back-up plan!
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04-16-2017, 10:40 PM | #21892 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Latest update for the notional Joe organization. Bunch of little details added such as the qualification requirements for the medics, cleared up the requirements for the senior enlisted leader position (the big issue is that "First Sergeant" is a PMOS and a rank in the USMC, whereas the equivalent in the Army and the Navy is a "lateral promotion" within the E-8 paygrade, so I had to make that clear in the table with an expanded footnote).
Another major addition is the inclusion of Masters-at-arms from the source pool for the Multipurpose Canine Handlers. I couldn't find out a lot about NAVSPECWARCOM's working dog program, though I did read that their handlers and kennel masters/trainers are largely drawn from members of the Masters-at-arms community who have, at minimum, completed Enlisted Expeditionary Warfare Specialist qualification. |
04-17-2017, 01:57 AM | #21893 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Latest update for the notional Joe organization. Bunch of little details added such as the qualification requirements for the medics, cleared up the requirements for the senior enlisted leader position (the big issue is that "First Sergeant" is a PMOS and a rank in the USMC, whereas the equivalent in the Army and the Navy is a "lateral promotion" within the E-8 paygrade, so I had to make that clear in the table with an expanded footnote).
Another major addition is the inclusion of Masters-at-arms from the source pool for the Multipurpose Canine Handlers. I couldn't find out a lot about NAVSPECWARCOM's working dog program, though I did read that their handlers and kennel masters/trainers are largely drawn from members of the Masters-at-arms community who have, at minimum, completed Enlisted Expeditionary Warfare Specialist qualification. Quote:
Extract from NWP 3-05
4.2.6 Multi-purpose Canine SEAL platoon capability is enhanced by the Multi-Purpose Canine, a carefully selected dog who has completed a 20-week Multi-Purpose Canine training course. Each dog is assigned a handler. The handler is a SEAL operator who trains the dog prior to deployment and remains with that dog throughout a deployment. In addition to accompanying foot, boat, or vehicle patrols, Multi-Purpose Canines can be inserted with their handler by tandem parachute, helicopter fast rope, or rappel. The Multi-Purpose Canine's primary mission is explosive detection to provide warning of improvised explosive devices (IEDs). On indication from the dog of possible explosives, the handler marks the area where the item was found and EOD is notified to handle the threat. The Multi-Purpose Canine also possesses the ability to work on or off leash while performing other tasks, including search, locate, and apprehend enemy combatants as a nonlethal force option. In the event the target is barricaded, the dog is trained to bark alert until recalled by the handler. Multi-Purpose Canines are unable to target-discriminate, so care is used and escalation of force guidance considered prior to releasing the dog against a target. The Multi-Purpose Canine is also employed to detect enemy weapons caches.
__________________
Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
04-17-2017, 02:57 AM | #21894 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Thanks for the source. While I've read that Special Warfare Operators do serve as MPC handlers (most famously in the raid that targeted Bin Laden), I've also read that Masters-at-arms serve in a similar capacity. To cite one example, the dog handler attached to the DEVGRU detachment who was among those killed in the 2011 Chinook helicopter shootdown in Afghanistan was a Master-at-arms Petty Officer 1st Class (Expeditionary Warfare Specialist).
I'm guessing is that there are Special Warfare Operators who are trained to serve as dog handlers organic to the SEAL platoons, and then there are non-SEAL combat support dog handlers from the Master-at-arms community attached at the SEAL Team-level as Naval Special Warfare Combat Support. I imagine the full-time kennel masters and trainers are probably from the latter. |
04-17-2017, 06:07 AM | #21895 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
Latest update for the notional Joe organization. Bunch of little details added such as the qualification requirements for the medics, cleared up the requirements for the senior enlisted leader position (the big issue is that "First Sergeant" is a PMOS and a rank in the USMC, whereas the equivalent in the Army and the Navy is a "lateral promotion" within the E-8 paygrade, so I had to make that clear in the table with an expanded footnote).
Another major addition is the inclusion of Masters-at-arms from the source pool for the Multipurpose Canine Handlers. I couldn't find out a lot about NAVSPECWARCOM's working dog program, though I did read that their handlers and kennel masters/trainers are largely drawn from members of the Masters-at-arms community who have, at minimum, completed Enlisted Expeditionary Warfare Specialist qualification. |
04-17-2017, 09:24 AM | #21896 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
|
According to http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-np...eer%20path.pdf, it looks like MAs can apply for Special Warfare duty for their 2nd sea tour and "MWDs are assigned to Installation Security, DEVGRU, and Strategic Weapons Facilities. MWD Handlers/ Kennel Masters may also be assigned to Naval Special Warfare units."
Seems like the Navy still relies on MAs as a source for SPECWAR MWDs. I've been wondering why in the recent SEAL career path documents they haven't included 2005 and 2006 as allowable NECs. I wonder if SEALs attend different training for MPC Handler billets. |
04-17-2017, 01:57 PM | #21897 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Looks great Z,
Just a quick observation though, I think OPB is now OPE; Operational Preparation of the Environment as it now includes sea, air and space |
04-17-2017, 03:06 PM | #21898 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
All this leads me to think that the documents (NWP 3-05 and the Master-at-arms career roadmap) don't really contradict each other. The SEAL platoons do have Special Warfare Operators who are capable of serving as MPC handlers when necessitated by deployment requirements, but there are also full-time NAVSPECWAR dog handlers, trainers, and kennel masters sourced from the Master-at-arms community (who are probably attached as Naval Special Warfare Combat Support personnel at the Team or Group level). Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyroc
Just a quick observation though, I think OPB is now OPE
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04-17-2017, 03:40 PM | #21899 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
|
In 3-05 it says an MPC detachment of one SEAL and one MPC may be assigned to a platoon. So would that just be a tour assignment similar to something like serving as a scout with a Special Recon Team? Or do positions on an SRT count as billets? I find what constitutes or dictates a Navy billet is sometimes confusing. I guess I assumed that the MPC detachment came from a larger permanent MPC unit somewhere within the NSWG that had MWD billets but perhaps not.
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04-17-2017, 06:00 PM | #21900 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Quote:
I think the confusion (or my confusion, at least), stems from the fact that there are two kinds of military dog programs within NAVSPECWAR: There's the aforementioned Multi-Purpose Canine (MPC) program which produces MPCs and MPC handler-qualified SEALs, and then there are the "conventional" military working dog (MWD) units at individual NAVSPECWAR installations composed of qualified Masters-at-arms who handle PEDDs (Patrol/Explosive Detector Dogs), PDDDs (Patrol/Drug Detector Dogs), CTDs (Combat Tracking Dogs), and SSDs (Specialized Search Dogs). The MPC teams (or "detachments") are considered combat elements (hence the use of a specially trained SEAL as a handler) and they are expected to actively engage in combat alongside the SEAL platoons. The MWD teams are considered combat support elements who may or may not actively support combat operations as necessary (those that do, of course, are expected to be given additional training to supplement their skills). Where I'm drawing a blank is the question of whether or not Masters-at-arms MWD handlers assigned to NAVSPECWAR commands routinely attend MPC handler training (such as in the case of USMC MP dog handlers assigned to the Marine Raider Support Group). One would think so, given that there are publicly documented instances of MAs being attached to DEVGRU as dog handlers, but it could just as easily be the case that these MAs are handling conventional PEDDs or CTDs and not MPCs. |
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