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View Poll Results: The 377th Greatest G.I. Joe Character of all Time! | |||
The Jugglers | 7 | 18.42% | |
Letal / Lethal | 2 | 5.26% | |
Raven (drop zone) | 1 | 2.63% | |
Coil Crusher | 3 | 7.89% | |
Crimson Asp (drop zone) | 3 | 7.89% | |
Night Stalkers Commander | 4 | 10.53% | |
Manleh (drop zone) | 1 | 2.63% | |
Dr. Cassandra Knox | 4 | 10.53% | |
Body Bags | 1 | 2.63% | |
Wild Boar | 12 | 31.58% | |
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
05-11-2016, 08:49 PM | #31 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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When a Viper or Alley-Viper appears in a comic, are they given an individual name? Are their specific character traits or personalities defined? No, they're just nameless troopers behind faceless masks acting as cannon fodder mostly. Occasionally one is singled out and given a personality, a name, a face. Raven is an example of a particular Strato-Viper. Rip-It is a particular HISS operator. Fred a particular Crimson Guardsman. Letal a Frag-Viper.
It's unfortunate CAC wasn't given a better title like Cobra Imperial Guard or Bazooka Trooper or Underwater Specialist or Air Viper--his bio simply says "Cobra Combat Command"--but the lack of a good title alone doesn't make him characterless. Why can't he be viewed as a Combat Command trooper, someone that works in the Cobra TOC or HQ as a staff or command specialist? Steel Brigade was given his titular code name only decades after his appearance to sell a modern figure, and they probably wanted his file card to reflect the format of other Joes with code names. I doubt there was any thought of characterization put into the decision. But isn't CAC's title kind of non-descript, you might ask. Well yes, and most troopers do have a title or code name that conveys their specialty but not all. The first cobra trooper was titled "Cobra," a very broad title that doesn't convey much. His Code Name was even worse: "The Enemy." A code name shared by multiple troopers, not to mention Cobra Commander. Fast Blast Viper has the title of "Branch: Field Combat" and Desert Viper's title is "Desert Battle". Not much consistency there. But fans who bought CAC gave him a specific code name and created a bio based on a template of limited choices. The characterization exists; it simply lay in the hands of the consumer. Much like a hired writer who might flesh out a general trooper and give him a face and personality and specific background in a particular episode or issue, the buyer is the one who fleshes out CAC. The characterization merely comes from a different source, and again, and most importantly, nothing in the rules precludes his eligibility. He's a human, he's not a second version of an existing character, and he appears in official media, which includes file cards in toy lines. PS And in response to your example of the EELs, this is why we need clear criteria for deciding who is and isn't eligible. I've currently been cataloging all of the troopers for this very purpose and I'm almost done with it. I've created some criteria that should not exclude any of the previous poll winners nor create a double-standard for future nominees, but I'm still looking for discrepancies. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 05-11-2016 at 09:30 PM.. |
05-11-2016, 09:19 PM | #32 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 2,184
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Sounds like we really need to hammer out version 2s of characters..maybe a poll within the next few polls? Such as next poll could include a question such as "Is Eel V2 eligible? answer yes or no after your adds."
We should come up with a list of ones that people are wondering about. We could encourage participation and discussion by the addition of another choice of add for the next round if you vote. For what it is worth, I think that Python Patrol troopers should definitely count. They are clearly different though they share same molds. In the comics, they have specific purposes and allegiances. I also think the various BATs should count. They are very specific to their purpose as well. I think that Create a Cobra should count. I agree he is the Cobra version of Steel Brigade, albeit with a very unimaginative title (thanks Hasbro). Just my two cents, for what it is worth.... |
05-11-2016, 09:41 PM | #33 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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Those are some good points, Bub. In fact, I was just thinking awhile ago that I could use the bonus round section to encourage participation in polls about the eligibility of certain controversial characters. I agree that keeping it democratic would be the best way to go. Voting on every version of a trooper would obviously be too tall of an order but I could post a preliminary list so people could decide which versions they want to debate.
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05-11-2016, 10:15 PM | #34 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nantucket
Posts: 615
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add Side Track (SSG S. McLaughlin) and Crossfire
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05-12-2016, 12:31 AM | #35 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 161
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Dr Knox, add Rip-It, Sparta
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05-12-2016, 06:53 AM | #36 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 4,069
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Python Viper appeared in the comics as a distinct faction, usually working for Darklon, so I thought that merited their inclusion in a way that the other Python variants wouldn't necessarily qualify for.
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05-12-2016, 10:27 AM | #37 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: detroit area
Posts: 1,055
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377th greatest........
Wild Boar add Dickie and Ramon LRRP. |
05-12-2016, 05:27 PM | #38 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 10,816
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The "Cobra Combat Command" is not a "title." It's meaningless. Steel Brigade's file card said the same thing on top, "G.I. Joe Combat Command." That is simply a reference to the entire Joe or Cobra organization.
Steel Brigade was NOT only given his name decades later. It's right there on the bottom right of the file card. CAC's file card has NOTHING there. REGARDLESS, Steel Brigade was MADE into a defined character by the Club 10 years ago and by POC later. If that had not happened, his eligibility could be disputed too. But I wouldn't dispute it because his file card says "Steel Brigade Team" right on it. You can view Create-A-Cobra as anything you like. That's the point. It wasn't given an identity or a name, so it's not a character. You're simply ignoring or failing to address all my clear, indisputable points, such as the fact that it could never be used in a comic book without the writer having to name it or explain what it is. You nitpick over the names of the first Cobra or whatever, totally ignoring that they have a complete bio on their file card. There is NO doubt what defines them as a character in the mythos. Create-A-Cobra has NO name and NO bio. His character is totally undefined and could be anything depending on who assigns him a name and traits. The "options" on Create-A-Cobra are CONTRADICTORY options. They are not a "starting point" on which the consumer embellishes later. They are NOT part of the character unless the consumer selects them. Create-A-Cobra is a FIGURE, not a CHARACTER, thus is not eligible for this poll. Last edited by JediJones; 05-12-2016 at 05:30 PM.. |
05-12-2016, 05:54 PM | #39 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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Well I created a poll for the debate so it's in the hands of the majority now.
You have a point about the title being meaningless but the original Steel Brigade did not have a specialty title. It just says Steel Brigade Team. They are the same concept. One is a Joe, the other a Cobra, both of whom you created. Nitpicking is what we do here if we want to decide who's eligible, not just defer to YOUR judgement, or mine for that matter. If you require that characters must have a bio, then I guess that disqualifies Blue Ninja, right? He has no figure or bio, just an appearance in the comics. And what about characters that share the exact same bio like Cobra v1 and Viper Pilot? They both have the exact same bio and code name, The Enemy, and look the same with the exception of their sigil's color. The only differences are the title of "Viper Pilot" instead of "Cobra" and the addition of "Viper Pilot" in his secondary specialty. So by your logic, if there's a change in say the trooper's color (see uniform sigil) and a change in the character's specialty title, then he would be eligible, just like Viper Pilot, correct? Well if that's the rule, then we have to allow all the other versions of troopers who have some change of color on their uniforms and/or a change in their specialty title, which opens the door for dozens of other trooper. And if you care to take a look, you'll see that there are tons of variations in bios, code names, titles, and what have you. I'm simply trying to create some clear, logical, and consistent criteria. Nothing more. I noticed you also didn't address my most important point, which is that nothing explicitly in the rules precludes his eligibility. You have some valid points and so do I, as do others. But when we can't agree, we'll vote on it. Simple as that. Edit: I forgot to address your comment that "...[CAC] could never be used in a comic book without the writer having to name it or explain what it is." This is hardly indisputable. Since when have writers not taken liberties with characters by changing their history, background, ranks, personality traits, and even ethnicities? Or by not filling in back stories and retconning characters and giving otherwise nameless troopers a specific name and particular personality? So it's not impossible for me or anyone to write a story where I further characterize CAC with my own title, background, or whatever. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 05-12-2016 at 06:13 PM.. |
05-12-2016, 06:23 PM | #40 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 10,816
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Give me a break. You know those early file cards for troopers just threw "the enemy" in there instead of naming the character based on his specialty. Hanging your argument on that early confusion in the labeling is pitifully weak. Viper Pilot is his code name as much as Crimson Guard or Tele-Viper were theirs. This error was corrected on the 25th versions of the cards as well.
OF COURSE the rules disqualify him. They say CHARACTERS are eligible. The CAC is not a character, it's a costume, an empty suit. Can I nominate Gung-Ho's Dress Blues uniform next? Or CC's Battle Armor? "FURTHER" characterize is a TOTAL misnomer! CAC has NOT been characterized AT ALL! I said this before and again you choose to ignore it. You ALSO ignore that I already said this is NOT "fleshing out" an individual Trooper. That's what comic writers do and what the kids filling out Steel Brigade bios did. CAC isn't even defined as a type of trooper. In fact, the order form asks you to say whether he's an Eel, a B.A.T., a Crimson Guard, etc. This is as undefined as it gets. Throwing the question of eligibility to a vote is a cop-out. The right answer is not always the same as popular opinion. Popular opinion could end up producing a whole lot of contradictory results and rules if you left everything up to that. The definition of the word "character" doesn't change just because most people might be ignorant of it. You can have a vote to change the rules to new wording if you want, but you cannot have a vote to redefine a word that's in the dictionary. Last edited by JediJones; 05-12-2016 at 06:27 PM.. |
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