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11-14-2008, 01:38 PM | #101 |
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I'm sorry, but most of the people against the movie come off as close-minded. "It's not the Joes I grew up with, it will suck and I haven't even seen any footage yet."
There is no single incarnation of the Joes that is the same from one medium to the next. Hell, even the comics changed. Saying the movie isn't G.I. Joe is saying the cartoon isn't G.I.Joe and only the comics are the accepted medium. Or the cartoon is god and the comics suck. All the movie is is another version of G.I. Joe, albeit this has the most concept changes, but at it's core it's still G.I. Joe vs. Cobra. No offense, but alot of people bashing the movie are coming off as petty. "It's not what I want", "It's not what I remember". As far as I'm concerned, there's Comic-Duke, Figure-Duke, Cartoon-Duke and soon Movie-Duke (and the same for all the other characters). Hell, pretty soon we'll have Marvel-Comic-Duke, DDP-Comic-Duke and IDW-Comic-DUke. And really, why's it matter that Rip-Cord is black in the movie as long as he's the same core character? I think there's a little room for compromise here. Troynos is right to reserve judgment until after the film comes out and we have an opportunity to actually see it. I think, if we all stop for a minute and think about it, we'll see that as the wisest course of action. There's no point in getting up set about a movie we haven't even seen. Judging a book by it's cover and all that... I also think Deckard raises some excellent points. The Cartoon and the Comicbook were admittedly different - and VERY different in some ways. However, I think there was some room for difference in the 80's, while the images of the characters were not so "iconic" yet. After 25 years of G.I. Joe, who these characters are and what they're supposed to look like, is a little more settled in the many of the minds of the fans who grew up with them. I understand that to say that is a bit of a generalization, and Troynos makes a fair a valid point that there were many different versions of Duke (the cartoon, the comic - Marvel vs. DDP, the toy, etc.). That's true and it should be recognized. Some deviance and variety among the characters has always been tolerated to some degree by the fans - maybe because we grew up with it and we got used to it, and that's just the way it was - it was normal for us. However, the example you offered, Troynos, is a good one to talk about: the '87 Movie. It is one of my least favorites of the cartoon because of all the weirdness: Cobra-La, Falcon's portrayal and relationship with Duke, Chuckles portrayal, etc. My point is there is a limit to how divergent an interpretation can be and still remain true to the franchise, at least that's my opinion. I had the same problem when the Dukes of Hazzard movie came out: Driving around in the General Lee does not make you Bo and Luke Duke. Troynos, you've made a strong argument and reminded me of an important principle to save my evaluation until I've actually seen the movie. I will do so. I will withhold further judgement until I've been able to see the movie. I hope it's good; I really do. However, after watching the movie, if what I see is not what I consider to be a valid representation or faithful interpretation of G.I. Joe (and I think I'm pretty fair minded), then I will join Deckard and be outraged.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
11-14-2008, 01:58 PM | #102 |
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how would they have lost the rights to the name Roadblock when they have used it this year? the fact that Hasbro has been using Roadblock in the 25th line reveals they haven't lost that name, so I am not sure how that could be even remotely a convincing argument when it flies in the face of not only fact, but trademark laws and common sense.
and how they can use his likeness but not his name?!? are you serious? they created his likeness and own it, so they can't lose the rights to it (well, at least not for 100 years, or as long as the Mickey Mouse rule continues to get extended). Hasbro can never lose the right to use their design, they can simply lose the right to prevent others from using it -- big difference between the two. the most simple reason is probably the truest -- with Heavy Duty being in the movie, and Hasbro's obvious reduction of the two characters to their simplest characteristics -- black machine gunners - -Hasbro simply wants to use the Heavy Duty name from here on out on any character that is a black machine gunner for consistency with the movie. I am certain they could care less whether his file name is Marvin Hinton or LaMont Morris, and if IDW chooses to make the character look like Roadblock and use Roadblock's file name, but call him Heavy Duty, that is their choice. they could probably just as easily make him the actual Heavy Duty character, but they had already started production and design for the character to be Roadblock before Hasbro told them to use the Heavy Duty name, so they stuck with the design and simply renamed their Roadblock character Heavy Duty. so, Hasbro is the one that is fazing out Roadblcok, but they could care less whether the Roadblock character is renamed Heavy Duty or Heavy Duty simply takes his place. And yes they created the appearance, but they also created the name, but that can be copyrighted. It's an unsual law if you ask me. I understand the need to copyright ideas and protect original work, but Roadblock is his name. We know it's him.
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11-14-2008, 02:08 PM | #103 |
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Just to piggy back on what you're saying, Tanksmasher, it seems that this issue has been a problem for a long time: Hawk is a classic example of a character whose name has changed repeatedly for no good reason within the continuity. It must be some kind of legal problem with the copyright.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
11-14-2008, 02:14 PM | #104 |
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Exactly. Saying that because the movie has a black machine gunner named Heavy Duty, who has a distinct likeness (blackwards cap, shirt with ripped sleeves...), therefore any comic or cartoon that has a black machine gunner should call him Heavy Duty is not a good argument.
Roadblock looks completely different: he's big, bald, muscular, carries a fifty, wears a distinct uniform. Plus, Heavy Duty wasn't originally a heavy machine gunner, was he? The toyline depicted him as a heavy ordance trooper, involving laser systems and indirect fire, like artillery. |
11-14-2008, 02:24 PM | #105 |
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Exactly. Saying that because the movie has a black machine gunner named Heavy Duty, who has a distinct likeness (blackwards cap, shirt with ripped sleeves...), therefore any comic or cartoon that has a black machine gunner should call him Heavy Duty is not a good argument.
Roadblock looks completely different: he's big, bald, muscular, carries a fifty, wears a distinct uniform. Plus, Heavy Duty wasn't originally a heavy machine gunner, was he? The toyline depicted him as a heavy ordance trooper, involving laser systems and indirect fire, like artillery.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
11-14-2008, 02:29 PM | #106 |
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Now granted, maybe I shouldn't assume that Habro or IDW always makes rational decisions, but I'm just not sure why a reduction of two characters into one is needed. If they own the rights to Roadblock and want to use his likeness, call him Roadblock. Simple. If they like Heavy Duty and want to use him more, then use Heavy Duty's likeness. I don't care. But don't start calling Scarlett Lady Jaye and Torpedo Wet Suit and Flint Falcon. That's just confusing and wrong on so many levels.
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11-14-2008, 02:40 PM | #107 |
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I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. If there isn't some sort of rights issue with the name, then why would they use the likeness of Roadblock, and I'm referring to the picture of him in GI Joe #0, and call him Heavy Duty? There's no aesthetic reason for doing this. Just because both characters are black and carry machine guns is a strange reason. Did someone just decide he liked Roadblock but preferred the name Heavy Duty? Wet Suit is white and a SEAL, so why not call Torpedo Wet Suit for the hell of it. It doesn't make any sense. I don't know what the truth of the matter is, but there have been name issues (Dataframe and Skyduster to name a few), so how does it fly in the face of common sense? Maybe they had the right, lost it, got it back...I don't know. Calling Roadblock Heavy Duty does not create consistency. It's an inconsistency. And an unnecessary confusion for fans and new readers.
And yes they created the appearance, but they also created the name, but that can be copyrighted. It's an unsual law if you ask me. I understand the need to copyright ideas and protect original work, but Roadblock is his name. We know it's him. it doesn't make sense that Hasbro has reduced the two characters down to the basic similarities, but they have been doing it since GvC. haven't you been paying attention? |
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11-14-2008, 02:43 PM | #108 |
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At SDCC, someone asked why Heavy Duty and not Roadblock. The response was something along the lines of "I just identified more with the Heavy Duty character". And again, I really think it comes down to Roadblock being very cartoon-ish in the way he's identified with the rhyming. He did say that if there are other movies, we would definitely see more Joes and Cobra members, so don't completely count Roadblock out.
I could be completely off base with this, but it very well may be an issue of the writers/studio not knowing who was as important as others and they decided they needed a black guy and made a completely random decision while not knowing Roadblock's history and figured nobody would care. By the time someone pointed it out, it coulda been too late. I have a feeling he's just going to be a peripheral character anyways, so whatever. |
11-14-2008, 02:43 PM | #109 |
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GvC?
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
11-14-2008, 02:44 PM | #110 |
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GI Joe vs. Cobra
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