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12-19-2010, 12:27 AM | #741 |
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Quote:
As I posted elsewhere, the problem is that just a few episodes in, and they have already lost their way. Go watch Robotech or Starblazers, and you will see shows that have a fully fleshed out story that is moving you week by week (or back then, day by day) to a destination. As you go on the journey, you learn about the characters, but each story is one step closer to the end.
Renegades has spent two episodes not moving one step closer to the end. Yes, you learn more about SE and SS and Jinx. But the journey isn't to learn about the characters; it is to clear the names of soldiers and unlock the secret of Cobra. Unless we learn that SS is in league with Cobra, this moved us not one step closer to either. And it took TWO WEEKS out of the story. And worse, most of the story we saw in the first of the two episodes was just rehashed in the second. Everyone keeps saying how important and how awesome the writing is, but this was bad editing. Now, later on, these episodes may prove pivotal, but for now, it was just an excuse to have completely ridiculous ninja battles. You can rent some Ranma and see better action than this! Next week it looks like it is getting back on track - oddly through a Christmas episode! - so there is hope. But those were two episodes that didn't move the story forward. True, this SEEMS like it did nothing for the story. However, we need to find out WHY SE is sticking his neck out, and sticking around. Not only are there his feelings for Scarlet, but he himself is in fact a Renegade. With his skills he could drop these clowns like a bad habit and make himself some serious bank. However, now we know why he sticks around, and that he himself is on the run. It makes sense that this crew, being as fresh faced as they are would need a place to lie low and decompress while they plan their next move. Remember, this isn't the hardened team of elite operatives we knew as children. This is basically a group of young, fairly inexperienced soldiers. (with the exception of Duke and to a lesser extent RB) They wouldn't be able to hold this pace for long without getting a rest. So SE taking them to the cabin to rest DOES move the story along, and it DOES make perfect sense. It also allows for us to get exposition on SE, and as much as I hate to admit it, and the ninja-ninja-rah-rah-rah crap, Kenny is right. SE and SS are extremely important to Joe, atleast anything that has ties to ARAH in anyway. So this moved the story along, by NOT moving the story along. If that makes sense, at all.
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12-19-2010, 02:41 AM | #742 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Five eps now and I feel I can say confedantly, this is horrible. Stormy's outfit looks like a reject from Mummies Alive, Jinx looks like a mallrat, Major Bludd should have stayed on the set of 5th element, Scarlett looks like she got pinched by Clutch, who is nowhere to be seen of course so you wonder what is bugging her. I would complain about characterization if there was any, except for Roadblock in one sceane where he comes accross as a lazy blob while the building burns around him rather than being genuinly conserned for his well being just inches away from FIRE!
Point is it's not well thought out, poorly executed show that would need a complete overhaul to salvage the minor points that work. I am done with it, got better shows to waste time on. |
12-19-2010, 03:28 AM | #743 |
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12-19-2010, 06:49 AM | #744 |
ChaplainAsst
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Quote:
I gotta disagree with you, and here's why...
True, this SEEMS like it did nothing for the story. However, we need to find out WHY SE is sticking his neck out, and sticking around. Not only are there his feelings for Scarlet, but he himself is in fact a Renegade. With his skills he could drop these clowns like a bad habit and make himself some serious bank. However, now we know why he sticks around, and that he himself is on the run. It makes sense that this crew, being as fresh faced as they are would need a place to lie low and decompress while they plan their next move. Remember, this isn't the hardened team of elite operatives we knew as children. This is basically a group of young, fairly inexperienced soldiers. (with the exception of Duke and to a lesser extent RB) They wouldn't be able to hold this pace for long without getting a rest. So SE taking them to the cabin to rest DOES move the story along, and it DOES make perfect sense. It also allows for us to get exposition on SE, and as much as I hate to admit it, and the ninja-ninja-rah-rah-rah crap, Kenny is right. SE and SS are extremely important to Joe, atleast anything that has ties to ARAH in anyway. So this moved the story along, by NOT moving the story along. If that makes sense, at all. I don't disagree with the word "seems," as even I hinted at that. But from the STORY point of view, just one scene with Cobra would have brought it all together. I would say, "There is something larger here". But they didn't. And thus it makes it feel unnecessary or indulgent. If the show turns into a weekly "origins" of the Joes, it won't be successful. No, I'm not a big Ninja force fan. I haven't forgotten that Marvel basically changed the title of the comic for a time at the end of the run to being something like "GI Joe featuring Snake Eyes" which was exactly right for the content but wrong in terms of direction. And I would hate for this show to go that direction. I'm not trying to wrap this all up. My comparisons are to epic, roughly 30 episode stories in Robotech's 3 stories and Starblazers seasons. There were slight diversions here and there in those stories, but the STORY kept moving forward. I'm all for character development, but within the story. Go watch those shows and I think that is the tone Renegades is shooting for, but at the moment is missing.
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12-19-2010, 07:18 AM | #745 |
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i still think the show is ok, i mean, i really don't get to watch it, but what i seen so far is not bad.. i much rather have the classic type shit, but it really ain't all that bad...
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12-19-2010, 08:20 AM | #746 |
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Quote:
I don't disagree with the word "seems," as even I hinted at that. But from the STORY point of view, just one scene with Cobra would have brought it all together. I would say, "There is something larger here". But they didn't. And thus it makes it feel unnecessary or indulgent. If the show turns into a weekly "origins" of the Joes, it won't be successful.
No, I'm not a big Ninja force fan. I haven't forgotten that Marvel basically changed the title of the comic for a time at the end of the run to being something like "GI Joe featuring Snake Eyes" which was exactly right for the content but wrong in terms of direction. And I would hate for this show to go that direction. I'm not trying to wrap this all up. My comparisons are to epic, roughly 30 episode stories in Robotech's 3 stories and Starblazers seasons. There were slight diversions here and there in those stories, but the STORY kept moving forward. I'm all for character development, but within the story. Go watch those shows and I think that is the tone Renegades is shooting for, but at the moment is missing. Sure it's a different beginning to the universe, but it's a beginning none-the-less. You have to remember that this is only indulgent to you because you already know Joe, and sort of these characters. This show isn't written for you. It's written for young kids who don't really know these characters. As they grow, so do the characters they love. As far as the "epic" Robotech. That crap got old quick. Sure, everything moved along, but at a snails pace. While it was miles better then most of what was out at the time in terms of animation, just like old Joe and TF it looks like sh*t now, and the writing is still awful.
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12-19-2010, 09:03 AM | #747 |
ChaplainAsst
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Quote:
As far as the "epic" Robotech. That crap got old quick. Sure, everything moved along, but at a snails pace. While it was miles better then most of what was out at the time in terms of animation, just like old Joe and TF it looks like sh*t now, and the writing is still awful.
Here IS what is missing in Renegades: the Cobra perspective. Sunbow went WAAY campy with this, but Renegades has almost completely done away with letting us see what Cobra is up to. Epic cartoons always give you a sense of how the enemy is responding. I can't remember, but I think we have had one glimpse at CC in the story of the cartoon (there may be a second, I can't recall though). So far, it is the Joes just getting attacked every episode, and their response. It feels a little bit like Power Rangers - each week, a new enemy is commissioned to destroy the renegade soldiers. All they had to do to make this story feel like a larger part of the story is just show a "back at Cobra Command" type of scene. That just makes the story part of something bigger. The comics, while flawed, often do a brilliant job of this.
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12-19-2010, 09:15 AM | #748 |
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First, I could care less who I piss off. I don't live my life worrying about crap like that. I get there are people who love Robotech. I remember watching it back in the 80's and as I said. Visually it was way ahead of the american shows, but the horrible dubbing, and snail's pace story were annoying at best. Talk about a cookie cutter formula. EVERY Japanese show had the same premise. The "good guy", the "anti-hero", or "brooding good guy", the oaf, the chick, the smart guy. It was all the same crap recycled over and over. There was nothing great about Robotech in retrospect, it was just ahead of what we were used to getting, especially in terms of art.
That being said, Renegades isn't ahead of other shows out there now. It's a decent show. I find the writing to be well done. Not "amazing", but better then somethings out there. It hasn't pushed the envelope, though. As far as "back at Cobra Command", how did we not get that other then these two episodes? The first three episodes have it. These two didn't. As I said, these eps were supposed to be a "break in the action". In the sense that it's trying to give a slightly realistic portrayal of life on the run. It's not so much that Flint or Cobra is always actually in their rear view mirror. There is down time. Sometimes, that down time ends up being worse. If they had Flint or Cobra CONSTANTLY 3 car lengths behind them, it'd turn them into complete non-threats in the course of 3 to 4 episodes. Remember. It's a journey, not a destination.
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12-19-2010, 10:06 AM | #749 |
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I agree with you wholeheartedly trooper!
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12-19-2010, 10:25 AM | #750 |
ChaplainAsst
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Quote:
First, I could care less who I piss off. I don't live my life worrying about crap like that. I get there are people who love Robotech. I remember watching it back in the 80's and as I said. Visually it was way ahead of the american shows, but the horrible dubbing, and snail's pace story were annoying at best. Talk about a cookie cutter formula. EVERY Japanese show had the same premise. The "good guy", the "anti-hero", or "brooding good guy", the oaf, the chick, the smart guy. It was all the same crap recycled over and over. There was nothing great about Robotech in retrospect, it was just ahead of what we were used to getting, especially in terms of art.
I respect that you disagree, and obviously LOVE Renegades. My feeling is that it is straying. I'm not saying the show sucks or anything like that. Especially for kids, you do need some connecting threads. Imagine hearing a speech that, without a real segue, changes subjects, and then comes back to the original point with only a slight, "I'll come back to this later." Kids - even more than adults - need this kind of structure. It is obvious that the story with the Arashikage isn't over. I would have personally preferred developing the current cast instead of adding new characters every week, and trying to explain them. That appears to be the direction they are going. If so, this seems very Sunbow - with cameos of Joes and Cobras to justify having them in the toy line.
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