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05-21-2020, 11:13 AM | #11 |
Extensive Enterprises Rep
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,976
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This is becoming a more difficult topic to discuss as time goes on.
There are a lot of social pressures on both sides of the fence right now. Consider this, society was very fearful when it didn’t know much about it. Now people are learning from experience and creating what they consider as reasonable risk. Statistics can be manipulated to reflect certain points and that is happening often from both camps. My point is, don’t take all information as truth. Xero is right to a point with his statement. People will need to look inward and determine what is an “acceptable risk”. I’d like to say go collect data and become informed in order to help make the best decision but even data and media sources are saying conflicting information. In this case, I read between the lines. Look at people considered experts in the field and see how they are behaving. Are they going to Starbucks for a morning coffee, hitting a Target on their way to the barber shop? The truth of the matter is we still don’t know a lot about this virus, which fuels the fear in the medical and science community. I don’t know if this is the type of information you were looking for or if this is even helpful but just be safe everyone. Also, Elon Musk is not an expert in the field. He did an interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast and although he is an intelligent guy, his views on the matter are laughable among the medical community.
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05-21-2020, 11:27 AM | #12 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,074
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I find a lot of the information difficult to trust, as KR points out.
Life is lived with risk. You're still more likely to die from a car accident than from covid-19. It seems we're at the point where the individual needs to assess their own risk, and if people take even the most basic of precautions, we can normalize without collapsing the economy or putting peoples' financial lives and mental well-being into a tailspin.
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05-21-2020, 11:53 AM | #13 |
Reptilian Ninja
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 15,964
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True, You are more likely to die from a car accident but being in a car accident is something you cant control. Yes you can buckle your belt, drive like a pro, and take classes to be a better driver but the guy in the lane next to you could look at his phone for a second weave over into your lane and knock you into next week.
You can wear mask,etc with this virus to keep from spreading but no one takes the precautions to keep it from spreading so that is why they made us stay inside,etc. No one cares for others really anymore. In some ways it is why they started having no smoking areas,etc. People do not take the effort to protect themselves or others so the government has to jump in and try. That is why they freaked out about the virus. They tried to protect the elderly and the other high risk from the ones that didn't get it. Quote:
I find a lot of the information difficult to trust, as KR points out.
Life is lived with risk. You're still more likely to die from a car accident than from covid-19. It seems we're at the point where the individual needs to assess their own risk, and if people take even the most basic of precautions, we can normalize without collapsing the economy or putting peoples' financial lives and mental well-being into a tailspin.
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05-21-2020, 12:05 PM | #14 |
He Who Remains
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,377
|
While not all international data is trustworthy, it is embarrassing to look at our graphs of cases and deaths when compared to many other countries. This country has done a piss poor job compared to many others. Many countries are already moving past this, without the 1000+ deaths per day as we still have here. Could those countries see future breakouts once international travel resumes? Sure, but for now they are putting a clown suit on this country.
We have become a victim of our own freedom, to some extent, unfortunately. Freedom to some people, means freedom to infect whoever they please, sad to say. We'll hit 100,000 deaths before the end of this week. We really haven't flattened the curve, yet, fully. Though the new cases and daily deaths are decreasing, it has only been decreasing slightly/slowly. With all that said, it's obvious we can't sustain a full shutdown any longer. We're looking at what, 38-42 million unemployed....so far? I think it's going to take a huge spike in the numbers (deaths/infected) for them to impose another shut down. I also think, for many people, things aren't really real unless it affects them personally/directly. Until they lose a loved one, or become infected, or talk to a friend/relative working in a hospital...until then, to them this is just an overblown media exaggeration. When this was happening in China/Italy, many people had a "not here/not US", mentality. I think now we're seeing a similar perspective in our rural communities. Rural residents see this happening in the big cities, and they think "this wont affect our little town". With all this said, there are no easy answers. At some point we'll have to allow visitations at nursing homes...and yet this virus could wipeout an entire nursing home population. At some point we will have to open daycare and restart kindergarten...and yet those places are serious breeding grounds for germs. Lord help us. At least now the folks who've said "the normal Flu causes ____ deaths per years", have been silenced. The # they were quoting varies, but it's usually between 40,000-60,000. Well, we've blown past those #'s in a matter of about 8 weeks. Clearly, now we've all seen that this is NOT a normal Flu, or a normal situation. Last but not least......I think immune systems and overall health of the actual U.S. citizen has been bit overlooked/ignored. At some point we as citizens have to take responsibility for our own health. This mean more vegetables (a phrase I NEVER thought I would say), more exercise, and less junk food and overindulgence. Your immune system is made to fight, so let's all try and lose some weight to give it a fighting chance.
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05-21-2020, 12:06 PM | #15 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dee-Troit!
Posts: 105
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I agree, it's all about acceptable risk to you and the people you interact with. I'm a high risk person, having had two kidney transplants and having to take immunosuppressant drugs. I was on a ventilator back in 2011 for pneumonia and was lucky to pull out of it. So my wife and I will be will be on lock down longer than most. My brother keeps inviting us over for BBQ, but I have to graciously decline. My whole office is furloughed right now, but my employer has been very supportive of my situation and has suggested that I work from home when things start up again. I did do a little bit of amateur research, referencing the CDC, NHTSA, cancer.org and suicide prevention websites just for my own insight. Note that some of these reflect 2018 12-month totals. Also, these number reflects the US only. As has been mentioned, stats can be misleading, but this this the best info I've been able to compile to start to assess my own risk.
cancer -606,880 deaths estimated for 2019 unintentional injury -169,000 deaths estimated per year covid19 -95,000 deaths(in 5 months) flu estimated 20,000-60,00 deaths per year, 34,200 in 2018/19 season pneumonia -49,157 deaths in 2019 suicides -48,366 deaths in 2018 motor vehicle deaths -36,560 deaths in 2018
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05-21-2020, 12:24 PM | #16 |
He Who Remains
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 9,377
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Quote:
I find a lot of the information difficult to trust, as KR points out.
Life is lived with risk. You're still more likely to die from a car accident than from covid-19. It seems we're at the point where the individual needs to assess their own risk, and if people take even the most basic of precautions, we can normalize without collapsing the economy or putting peoples' financial lives and mental well-being into a tailspin. Also, deaths from car accidents are largely self inflicted, drunk driving, speeding, reckless driving, not wearing a seat belt, etc. Avoid those things and you likely won't be a part of that 38,000. It's an apples to oranges comparison really. Quote:
I agree, it's all about acceptable risk to you and the people you interact with. I'm a high risk person, having had two kidney transplants and having to take immunosuppressant drugs. I was on a ventilator back in 2011 for pneumonia and was lucky to pull out of it. So my wife and I will be will be on lock down longer than most. My brother keeps inviting us over for BBQ, but I have to graciously decline. My whole office is furloughed right now, but my employer has been very supportive of my situation and has suggested that I work from home when things start up again. I did do a little bit of amateur research, referencing the CDC, NHTSA, cancer.org and suicide prevention websites just for my own insight. Note that some of these reflect 2018 12-month totals. Also, these number reflects the US only. As has been mentioned, stats can be misleading, but this this the best info I've been able to compile to start to assess my own risk.
cancer -606,880 deaths estimated for 2019 unintentional injury -169,000 deaths estimated per year covid19 -95,000 deaths(in 5 months) flu estimated 20,000-60,00 deaths per year, 34,200 in 2018/19 season pneumonia -49,157 deaths in 2019 suicides -48,366 deaths in 2018 motor vehicle deaths -36,560 deaths in 2018
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~~~~~The Late Night Crew~~~~~ |
05-21-2020, 12:32 PM | #17 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,074
|
Quote:
True, You are more likely to die from a car accident but being in a car accident is something you cant control. Yes you can buckle your belt, drive like a pro, and take classes to be a better driver but the guy in the lane next to you could look at his phone for a second weave over into your lane and knock you into next week.
You can wear mask,etc with this virus to keep from spreading but no one takes the precautions to keep it from spreading so that is why they made us stay inside,etc. No one cares for others really anymore. In some ways it is why they started having no smoking areas,etc. People do not take the effort to protect themselves or others so the government has to jump in and try. That is why they freaked out about the virus. They tried to protect the elderly and the other high risk from the ones that didn't get it. I think we're also deferring almost entirely to medical professionals in terms of response, which might be problematic. As Fauci said in his own words, he is only considering health and safety as it realates to covid when he makes his recommendations. At that point, it's up to our leaders to determine what the legal balance/response is, factoring in the affect on the economy and associated collateral damage. This article is an example of collateral damage. To summarize, a projection for thousands of deaths related to HIV are predicted if current interruptions to those medical services brought on by covid 19 aren't resolved. Whether this is reliable or not, who nows, but it is published by WHO itself. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail...eaths-from-hiv I'm not going to do so here, but I think it's also fair to assess the affected demographics when we evaluate deaths. As much as I hear about "trusting the science", no one really is doing that. Science is about numbers as much as anything, but every news outlet seems to want to use any anomaly they can find to sensationalize things. There also seems to be a lot of imbalance, much of which I think is politically motivated. When things started, I was led to believe this was an unstoppable force and that we were simply buying time and trying to keep our medical resources from being overwhelmed. Now, I constantly read about all the deaths that could have been prevented if action had been taken sooner. But it seems unless we go into total lockdown until a cure or vaccine is created, people are giong to die.
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05-21-2020, 12:38 PM | #18 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dee-Troit!
Posts: 105
|
Quote:
Ax, man, you hit a pet peeve of mine, folks comparing this to car accidents. Approx 38,000 die per year in car accidents. The death total for this virus has already passed 90,000.
Also, deaths from car accidents are largely self inflicted, drunk driving, speeding, reckless driving, not wearing a seat belt, etc. Avoid those things and you likely won't be a part of that 38,000. It's an apples to oranges comparison really. Good info. I just wanted to point out that those 95,000 covid deaths were mostly from a 2-3 month period, not 5 months.
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05-21-2020, 12:42 PM | #19 |
Mass Nerderer
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slitherin' around the tank- It's cool, though, 'cause I'm being "watched"
Posts: 9,099
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This all fucking day long. Its difficult to trust any info when it's being presented in a biased "left vs. right" way. I don't care if you watch Fox or CNN, it's all a bunch of bullshit.
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05-21-2020, 12:45 PM | #20 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
I agree. Plus, this is 95,000 deaths with at least a couple months of social distancing and some statewide stay-at-home directives. Imagine what that number would be if had we continued with business as usual thru March/April/May. Granted, geography plays a huge role. I'm in southeastern Michigan, which was hit hard. Northern Michigan has far fewer cases/deaths.
Or does it come down to this thing being so damn contagious, everything we do, at best, is a stall? And while, again, it's hard to trust anything, this admission seems like it would work against the perceived political motivations of Cuomo, so I'd have a hard time saying why he would lie about it. Granted, the information they're basing that determination on could be bad as well. You get sick, feel like an idiot for going out, and then lie to your doctor about it, right? Again, who knows?
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