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03-12-2011, 02:05 AM | #21 |
Cobra Lalalalalalalala!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cobra-La
Posts: 1,445
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Well, there was a time during the early days of Joe conventions when the figures available at them were Hasbro sanctioned but were produced by hand in such small numbers that they weren't deemed "official" parts of the line. Like the '93 Cobra Jinx for example:
http://www.yojoe.com/action/conventi...jinx93card.jpg it was included in a Hasbro official collector guide, even has a Hasbro insignia on the cardback but is not considered "official" in the terms you're using. However...in regards to 2002-onward JoeCon exclusive items, there is simply no argument that they aren't 100% authentic, official, parts of the actual toy line. This is for a variety of reasons. The biggest being that the Collector's Club (which the Con is an off-shoot of) is advertised on the packaging of all Joe figures. Plus there really isn't merit in the argument that because they are overpriced and released for only a short time makes them any less authentic. Most of these items are manufactured in the 1000+ range. How many people can say they own RoC Kamakura, a mass released and very difficult to find figure? Is SDCC Sgt. Slaughter not authentic because he was only available during SDCC (also at an inflated price and for only a short time). While I personally am annoyed by the often lack of creative concepts, reused parts, and inflated prices. The club and con have also produced some really cool exclusives. To me this is no different than having a mail away figure, or a figure that you had to buy an expensive vehicle to obtain. Making them harder to get adds some challenge and fun to collecting. If they were all cheap and readily available collecting wouldn't be as fun, in my opinion. |
03-12-2011, 02:06 AM | #22 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Extensive Enterprises Executive Airfield Boca Raton
Posts: 3,423
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600 of each figure are in demand (not including bagged versions, even with these it's less than a 100 of each fig). You have the opportunity to order these for over two months and they just sold out Mass produced means tens of thousands of each
Trust me, they are not that in demand. Also , why is it fair to devalue these sets for those of us that are willing and able to purchase them. If they weren't rare, they would loose some of their intrigue. Just look at mainframe. |
03-12-2011, 02:07 AM | #23 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: quad cities
Posts: 4,918
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Quote:
I don't really understand where all your anger/frustration about this is coming from. I'm just trying to have a civil discussion. Like I said, I support the Club (I have for years), and I bought this years set. I'm not anti-Collector's Club.
Yeah, Aly's prices for 25th style complete figure kits are around $65. But if we're trying to figure out the average "cost" of a Club figure for the average fan, it's not unreasonable to factor in the average aftermarket cost into that equation. And if you want to consider them "official" that's fine. Your opinion is certainly as good as anyone else's, but it doesn't make it anymore ontologically correct than anyone else's either... including mine. You don't have exclusive rights to the reality of the situation. |
03-12-2011, 02:07 AM | #24 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denmark & USA
Posts: 4,966
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Quote:
I like your anology, and perhaps I'm not making my position clear - though I'm not really trying to take a position so much as just foster a discussion.
I think what I'm saying is like saying that BMW IS American because it's made in America. Obviously, some supporters of GM, Ford, and Chrysler (the Pro-Hasbro Legalists) would say "NO. It's a German Company. It's NOT an "official" American Car!" I'm not disputing the legal status of who/where owns the car company, all I'm saying is that if American workers are producing these cars, and they're bought and driven in America, aren't they "American Cars" in some sense? And since GM does produce some parts in countries outside the U.S., are they really "100% American"?
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03-12-2011, 02:08 AM | #25 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I'm trying to discuss "official" (notice the use of lowercase) in a "grassroots acceptance" sort of way. The Club figures are made for guys like us: fanboys. In a sense (obviously, not a LEGAL sense), we decide what we're willing to accept because we're the intended audience and the consumers. I suppose it's sort of like putting your hand over your heart during the national anthem... no LAW says you have to, but it's sort of the "official" thing to do in a sort of "traditional/grassroots" way. That's all.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-12-2011, 02:09 AM | #26 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 46,198
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and what kind of discussion are you trying to force out? If is about legal customs or the limited availability of exclusives?
many companies use limited exclusives as a way to spark interest and conversation about a line, Ford-SVT vehicles, comic books with limited series or different covers for a issue that are produced in smaller numbers. Its a tool to move some product and keep people interested by producing small numbers of something that is not available all the time. If you mean why is the club fig an official and not them other guys-well simply put if the other guys go to hasbro and show them what they are doing and ask for Hasbro to give them a seal of approval it will end up costing even more, if they are even allowed to produce figs at all after that |
03-12-2011, 02:11 AM | #27 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Quote:
Also, The Sears exclusives back in the day were limited and only out for a short period of time. Try buying a Sears Missile Command set or a Sears SMS set now. Plus, the reason that the original Mission: Brazil set is so popular and expensive now is because it was an exclusive too and in very small numbers. It kind of resembles the Club's correlation with the set. Heck, the club actually made it easier to get than when we were kids in TRU hoping to find it but always being sold out.
It's true that they were more limited, but there seems to be a qualitative difference to me between that situation and this situation.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-12-2011, 02:12 AM | #28 |
Joecon Guru
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,431
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well...
the club... simply put, makes figures that Hasbro pretty much wont do, because they wont sell if they mass produce them. I have been asking Hasbro... in person... for over 5 years to make a big lob figure. and they finally told me at the last joecon, that some figures they're just not gonna make... because , thanks to reading the boards and listening to people say ****** sucks, they figure its not gonna sell, and not worth justifying making 30,000 of them. ...but the club could get away with making 600 and selling it to THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT ONE AND ARE WILLING TO PAY EXTRA FOR IT hence last year's Big Lob Membership figure... one of the few Club figures to Completely sell out. so apparently, Hasbro couldn't get 30,000 joefans to like and buy Big lob, but the Club found 600 fans who did. which is kinda the whole point of buying the joecon sets. so why shouldn't Hotwire, Big Lob, Female Doc, Black Dragon Ninjas, Headhunter model BATS, and all the onter figures made NOT be considered official Joes? ...thats like saying The Fridge, Hooded cobra commander, Original Duke, and Sgt. Slaughter weren't official because they were mail-ins.
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03-12-2011, 02:14 AM | #29 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Then I misunderstood. I cry your pardon.
But the argument FOR these being "unofficial" could better be made regarding San Diego Comicon figures. These are even MORE limited, are sold for only 3-4 days, and are almost always figures that are greatly desired by the fan base. I'm not really trying to take a side so much... Like I said, I'm a member and I'm getting this set. I just feel sort of bad for the guys who aren't/can't.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-12-2011, 02:16 AM | #30 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: quad cities
Posts: 4,918
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Quote:
I'm trying to discuss "official" (notice the use of lowercase) in a "grassroots acceptance" sort of way. The Club figures are made for guys like us: fanboys. In a sense (obviously, not a LEGAL sense), we decide what we're willing to accept because we're the intended audience and the consumers.
Even though they are still part of joedom, there is always an asterisk on them. They are treated as a seperate wing of the joe collective, but they are definitely part of the collective in the way simple customs are not. They are accepted as official by the major sources of authority on the subject (yojoe.com archive, ron connor and james kavanaughs guide books). Until your post, I haven't really even heard anyone question the club figs as not being accepted by the community. |
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