[IzzyTipsy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxonRey

The MCU has established that you can both respect your core audience (in this case, pre-existing Joe fans, whether its the cartoons, comics, or toys themselves) and appeal to "outsiders" if you prioritize quality and thoughtfulness. So, I don't think you can get the mass appeal without it being "good".

Problem is we need to stop looking at the MCU as some juggernaut. Phase 4 was not successful and Phase 5 is already off to two bad starts. The upcoming D+ shows are in shambles. Hell, they might have to already write out the Big Bad due to off set issues AND because the movie introducing him as said threat totally bombed.

I'm not sure cinematic universes are going to be a thing going forward much longer. Disney is losing billions and alot of it is Marvel and Star Wars, the two most known cinematic universes.

[karamazov80]

As long as the Joes kill every last one of the Michael Bay-inspired Transformers, then I'm good with it.

[xasonnex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IzzyTipsy

This probably should have been the original Transformers live action. All those military guys could have been Joes.

Seems like a way for Hasbro to try and boost GI Joe sales by tying it to Transformers ala the recent O-Rings. Makes me wonder if Joe isn't doing as well as they hoped the lines would, especially with them torching two of the four lines in 3 years.

How would a toy line even work? 2" Joes to go with 6" Transformers? 6" both scales and they'd just never really interact in a display?

I tell you, I'd be fine with 2"-3" Joes that fit in Transformers IF to get these tiny, probably 5-7 POA figures, you had to buy them in a pack with a matching 3 3/4" O-ring figure. That way you'd have a figure that looked right with the Transformers and figures that looked good alone. Especially if they made a few Transformers that were properly scaled for 3 3/4" like the MegaHISS and BumbleAWE

[PhantomTrblmkr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxonRey

Definitely the latter. If the interest is high, Joe is a varied storytelling universe. If we had the popular interest, in time, we could get the sorts of movies/shows that we might enjoy specifically.

However, both are achievable, I think. And I may go so far as to say the biggest issue with the Tatum-verse is the attempt to create the latter resulted in no consideration of the former.

The MCU has established that you can both respect your core audience (in this case, pre-existing Joe fans, whether its the cartoons, comics, or toys themselves) and appeal to "outsiders" if you prioritize quality and thoughtfulness. So, I don't think you can get the mass appeal without it being "good".

I agree with all of this. They'll never please every single fan, but they can absolutely combine fan service with broad appeal.

I think what's challenging about Joe as opposed to Star Wars or Marvel is that those two franchises have been MANY different things over the years. Marvel has been everything from a children's cartoon to hard-R rated comics. Star Wars has had comics, cartoons, and video games that present the subject matter in very different ways.

We're used to those concepts and characters being somewhat malleable. Even the MCU has taken fairly large creative liberties in its adaptations.

Joe, on the other hand, has had a few mediums that - despite the arguments that occur over them - are all very similar. And maybe that's because Joe doesn't offer as large of a playground in the eyes of those who try to create for it.

[Stygian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain mal

I've never liked Transformers mixed with GIJoe. No thanks.

This is me--^ Mix them in as part of the toys sure, but each property should be distinct and kept separate on film. I'm not sure which is worse. Your cruising along in a great new gritty and down-to-earth take on GI Joe and then from stage left Bumblebee comes swinging into view bristling with weapons and hogging screen time with a laborious albeit amazing eye candy transformation... which then sucks the wind right out of whatever great gritty military style take you were just watching. Or you're watching an amazing new take on Transformers and then Duke shows up naming Joe call signs and asking that Snake eyes take out a sniper nest.. and so forth. It seems like it would do a disservice to both properties to shoehorn them inorganically together.

That said, I'm willing to be proven wrong. The toys are already doing it and I don't hate those so, I'm willing to be impressed. So impress me Hasbro.

[wehrmanm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomTrblmkr

Mini poll within a thread:

If you could not achieve both and had to choose - would you rather a GI Joe-related movie be good (whatever your definition of that may be) or would you rather it generate cultural interest and mass-market appeal for the brand?

The inability to make a GI Joe movie that is preposterously over-stuffed with a explosions and testosterone to a point of comic hilarity will never astound me.

The Fast & Furious film franchise is a boilerplate for how to make a successful action movie. It's literally right there for the taking.

Specifically to your question, the latter. That's exactly what Transformers is as a film franchise: milquetoast fan service with explosions and a few hundred thousand dollars worth of ASCAP fees in music. But it anchors the brand, and every new show, every new toy line we see, starts with a 15+ year successful film franchise as its foundation. Spare me a good movie if the alternative is a crummy one that inspires executives to green light all kinds of toy lines.

[boygenius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomTrblmkr

If you could not achieve both and had to choose - would you rather a GI Joe-related movie be good (whatever your definition of that may be) or would you rather it generate cultural interest and mass-market appeal for the brand?

I personally feel the time, money, effort and luck required to produce a high quality film is a luxury this brand can no longer afford. Though sad to contemplate, with each passing year, GI Joe is likely losing far more fans than it gains.

Of course, if Rise of the Beasts bombs as badly as the Twitterverse and Redditverse are forecasting, it may all be academic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IzzyTipsy

Problem is we need to stop looking at the MCU as some juggernaut. Phase 4 was not successful and Phase 5 is already off to two bad starts.

One bad start. Fantastic word of mouth quickly turned Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3's fortunes around dramatically.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...surpasses_box/

https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/c...wing_power_of/

https://za.ign.com/guardians-of-the-...ever-the-issue

[Fred Broca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomTrblmkr

Mini poll within a thread:

If you could not achieve both and had to choose - would you rather a GI Joe-related movie be good (whatever your definition of that may be) or would you rather it generate cultural interest and mass-market appeal for the brand?

The former because if it's the latter then that will become the face of G.I. JOE. Imagine if R.O.C. would have did the numbers Transformers. The R.O.C. continuity would take precedence and A.R.A.H. might be dead.

[PhantomTrblmkr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Broca

The former because if it's the latter then that will become the face of G.I. JOE. Imagine if R.O.C. would have did the numbers Transformers. The R.O.C. continuity would take precedence and A.R.A.H. might be dead.

I'll quote Wehrmanm here because I think he summed it up perfectly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehrmanm

Specifically to your question, the latter. That's exactly what Transformers is as a film franchise: milquetoast fan service with explosions and a few hundred thousand dollars worth of ASCAP fees in music. But it anchors the brand, and every new show, every new toy line we see, starts with a 15+ year successful film franchise as its foundation. Spare me a good movie if the alternative is a crummy one that inspires executives to green light all kinds of toy lines.

Not only has 80s Transformers continuity continued on, products based on it have been released regularly. Imagine if ROC had done Transformers numbers? Yeah - we would have been swimming in Joe product and media for the last decade rather than panicking every time we go more than six weeks with no news.

Would we like it all/find it all to our taste? Nope. But the base would have been there for Hasbro to sell something to everyone - from the hardcore military folks to maybe even little kids watching an educational cartoon called Lil' Shippie N' Pals. We could have had the girtty Call of Duty game that many want, but also some adventure-style games that capture the Sunbow aesthetic.

If the money from the public at large is there, the sky is the limit. If the fanbase continues to just be us - and I have recent confirmation that it really is - then the brand will just sit at this plateau.

[AxonRey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IzzyTipsy

Problem is we need to stop looking at the MCU as some juggernaut. Phase 4 was not successful and Phase 5 is already off to two bad starts. The upcoming D+ shows are in shambles. Hell, they might have to already write out the Big Bad due to off set issues AND because the movie introducing him as said threat totally bombed.

I'm not sure cinematic universes are going to be a thing going forward much longer. Disney is losing billions and alot of it is Marvel and Star Wars, the two most known cinematic universes.

I would contest a few of those points, but I'm not suggesting a grand cinematic universe, nor is that the reason I'm pointing to the MCU.

I'm only suggesting it's not necessary to reinvent the wheel for properties that have decades of material. The fact is, Iron Man is still the gold standard as far as I'm concerned regarding media adaptation to film- and it did so by creating a high quality movie and deeply respected the source material.

I don't know why Hollywood thinks every character needs to be each other's brother's cousin's sister or whatever.