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11-14-2023, 08:47 AM | #1601 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,580
|
after reading animated tako's comment, i'm relieved to actually see in writing from someone involved in the project and about their particular figure (one i really wanted and cheered over)- not that revisions are going to happen - but especially digital revisions are going to happen. especially with runback.
but im still disheartened seeing that "fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock" thing. outside of runback's drastic changes (and that battle armor looking more like a corset in sculpted form), my biggest issue with my comments are proportions of the figures. so hopefully digitially runback's upper arms can be thinned out at her shoulders (retelo's shoulders are smaller than hers in that photo) and her torso/waist/legs also be more proportionate with each other. and this doesnt just mean runback specifically, when it comes to the other women having pointed out damselfly's color test picture with the oddly shaped torso - every female figure should have a proportionate feminine sculpt. nightraid - ok, the physical buck isnt going to allow for the body to be sculpted as a husky guy; but if it's going to be scanned and then subsequently modified, i would hope that they intend on modifying the figures' (not just night raid) bodies to be more proportional. that's going to take resizing the waist and legs to match a husky torso. sol eagle could also use a digital torso stretching. my big excitement about this project wasnt just more o-ring figures. but different sized figures in o-ring style. i've customized o-ring action figures since i could pick up a screw driver, im literally doing it right now, i dont want more of the same with this project. i want some husky dudes. i want some tiny girls. i want some average sized women. i want average sized men. i want big wrestlers. all of their parts in proportion with each other for each figure. but as far as physical sculpts and color tests im not seeing that and that's why i've been so upset. we got big squat torso skiny armed and little torso big legged figures with new sculpt gijoes and i didnt like that at all; i literally only have two new sculpt figures after throwing all of mine away and that's only because they're customs that took what proportional parts from others i could get to make taller figures. i can understand not logging in to see feedback, my issue is i waffle between not wanting to see updates and get disheartened over what i'm seeing and wanting to see updates so i know what i should be expecting. i know my feelings will probably change when these things are in my hands; i know there's a process to all of this and i know the expectations of that process is; but it doesnt mean i have to be happy with what im seeing just because of everyone involved. you know? because the greats are doing this, and i have an understanding of the process of them creating gijoes 40 years ago, i have higher expectations for them. i know they dont want to make a bad product. i want to be happy with what i'm seeing and what im going to get. i dont want to come here and berate these people and what they're doing. if george lucas came back to starwars tomorrow and made three more movies and none of them were any good - should i like them just because he did them? im not a fan of the prequels, but should i like them just because lucas did them? if he did it out of the goodness of his heart and it doesnt meet my expectations i should like it anyway? do you follow? |
11-14-2023, 10:50 AM | #1602 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,123
|
Quote:
after reading animated tako's comment, i'm relieved to actually see in writing from someone involved in the project and about their particular figure (one i really wanted and cheered over)- not that revisions are going to happen - but especially digital revisions are going to happen. especially with runback.
but im still disheartened seeing that "fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock" thing. outside of runback's drastic changes (and that battle armor looking more like a corset in sculpted form), my biggest issue with my comments are proportions of the figures. so hopefully digitially runback's upper arms can be thinned out at her shoulders (retelo's shoulders are smaller than hers in that photo) and her torso/waist/legs also be more proportionate with each other. and this doesnt just mean runback specifically, when it comes to the other women having pointed out damselfly's color test picture with the oddly shaped torso - every female figure should have a proportionate feminine sculpt. nightraid - ok, the physical buck isnt going to allow for the body to be sculpted as a husky guy; but if it's going to be scanned and then subsequently modified, i would hope that they intend on modifying the figures' (not just night raid) bodies to be more proportional. that's going to take resizing the waist and legs to match a husky torso. sol eagle could also use a digital torso stretching. my big excitement about this project wasnt just more o-ring figures. but different sized figures in o-ring style. i've customized o-ring action figures since i could pick up a screw driver, im literally doing it right now, i dont want more of the same with this project. i want some husky dudes. i want some tiny girls. i want some average sized women. i want average sized men. i want big wrestlers. all of their parts in proportion with each other for each figure. but as far as physical sculpts and color tests im not seeing that and that's why i've been so upset. we got big squat torso skiny armed and little torso big legged figures with new sculpt gijoes and i didnt like that at all; i literally only have two new sculpt figures after throwing all of mine away and that's only because they're customs that took what proportional parts from others i could get to make taller figures. i can understand not logging in to see feedback, my issue is i waffle between not wanting to see updates and get disheartened over what i'm seeing and wanting to see updates so i know what i should be expecting. i know my feelings will probably change when these things are in my hands; i know there's a process to all of this and i know the expectations of that process is; but it doesnt mean i have to be happy with what im seeing just because of everyone involved. you know? because the greats are doing this, and i have an understanding of the process of them creating gijoes 40 years ago, i have higher expectations for them. i know they dont want to make a bad product. i want to be happy with what i'm seeing and what im going to get. i dont want to come here and berate these people and what they're doing. if george lucas came back to starwars tomorrow and made three more movies and none of them were any good - should i like them just because he did them? im not a fan of the prequels, but should i like them just because lucas did them? if he did it out of the goodness of his heart and it doesnt meet my expectations i should like it anyway? do you follow? There are many steps in the production process left. We all want to see how they will finally look, but we must be patient. Carson is not going to produce a subpar product. I believe in this project because the people involved are professionals. |
11-14-2023, 10:54 AM | #1603 |
Washed Out
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: CA
Posts: 900
|
It feels like you are saying people aren't allowing you to dislike the figures.
I don't think that is actually as true as you might think. In fact, I won't speak for anyone else, but if you had forced me to pick who would be most likely to vocally dislike the final figures, I would have picked you without hesitation. You are allowed and expected to be dissapointed that this figure line has different goals and results than your dream line would.
__________________
Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank. |
11-14-2023, 11:09 AM | #1604 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,580
|
i know you are. but again, with what tako said "fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock" conflicts heavily with what you said about revisions.
small revisions arent what some of these figures need and digitally that is likelier where these changes will need to be made; such as altering the buck digitally to make a husky character husky. Quote:
It feels like you are saying people aren't allowing you to dislike the figures.
I don't think that is actually as true as you might think. In fact, I won't speak for anyone else, but if you had forced me to pick who would be most likely to vocally dislike the final figures, I would have picked you without hesitation. You are allowed and expected to be dissapointed that this figure line has different goals and results than your dream line would. Last edited by THEDARKONE508; 11-14-2023 at 11:14 AM.. |
11-14-2023, 11:16 AM | #1605 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,123
|
Quote:
i know you are. but again, with what tako said "fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock" conflicts heavily with what you said about revisions.
small revisions arent what some of these figures need and digitally that is likelier where these changes will need to be made; such as altering the buck digitally to make a husky character husky. |
11-14-2023, 11:30 AM | #1606 |
GI Joe Graffiti General
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Mindbenders Laboratory
Posts: 6,585
|
Quote:
i know you are. but again, with what tako said "fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock" conflicts heavily with what you said about revisions.
small revisions arent what some of these figures need and digitally that is likelier where these changes will need to be made; such as altering the buck digitally to make a husky character husky. i get it. by now you understand that i'm not typically going to grin and bear how im feeling about something good or bad. i appreciate that. i said some pretty awful stuff about supply chain in the beginning especially over how it seemed like everything great about runback was given to him, but the last update i saw of him i was pleasantly surprised and my view of him isnt so negative as it was.
__________________
vvvvSlices Customsvvvv 1/18 scale : http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...s-customs.html 1/12 scale https://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-j...d-customs.html 1st place Winner in The Joes Customs contest http://www.joecustoms.com/forums/vie...p?f=24&t=48010 true art speaks for itself. |
11-14-2023, 11:35 AM | #1607 |
Fartbutt McGillicuddy
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: EARF
Posts: 4,580
|
i just came back from spraypainting some toy crap during my break, i want you (dirtbag) and tako to give zica toys a ring and get your designs in o-ring form. not just sol eagle and mortifiero and runback.
their kickstarter didnt cut the mustard because they had two different themes going on; one of which was from a different company who barely has that idea figured out on their own (that fist/safe thing). zica tried to get something with easy kill 9 and it deservedly failed because of it's creator. but if you two put your heads together and figured something out and presented it with zica toys i think it'd be a great thing for everyone. i get the impression zica wants an o-ring line but understands basic storyless figures isnt going to be something that carries it, so they want a theme and to sell pocket people as a supplement line. you guys can do that (figures with some bios and an interconnected story) for them. not even kidding the only two creators in the recall project i had any interest in was both of yours. |
11-14-2023, 01:13 PM | #1608 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: CT
Posts: 353
|
Quote:
Hey guys, thought I would hop on and at least clear up a couple things.
Firstly, I never intended Runback's hat to be removable, that extra drawing was mostly just to show the hat shape - I always figured it would be a separate glued on piece for the sake of injection molding. I regret the confusion that's been caused by that, sorry. Secondly the green vest color was just what I whipped up before her colors were chosen from the color studies. I whipped up a new version of that that reflects the final choices here: One thing you'll note? Her hood got added back in this iteration. A case was made for it and I'm very thankful Carson and the team agreed and thought it was worth keeping. I also pitched in to help out with digitally coloring those sheets, and got to do hers' with a little cleanup. (original lines by Mark Pennington, of course, just color and small cleanup edits from me!) I've been allowed to be more hands on than most concept creators have been, and I'm extremely grateful for the chances to lend a hand here and there. The priority is to get a first pass on everyone from Bill Merklein and Mike Good. After that there is a plan for revisions, absolutely. I think that's more for Carson to announce and explain than for me to spoil, but there is one, and there are issues he is already aware of and wants to tackle (like how long her neck is). Many elements of her design are still missing. These things have to be digitized in the end to be manufactured, so you can probably imagine changes will become easier to make at that point. You'll note that like with Night Raid, his sculpt was begun before having some of the updates added like the goggles, so there is certainly more work to be done. For now, it's amazing to see them start life in the hands of some of the guys that made G.I.Joe what it is. Of course, I have some opinions about what parts are looking awesome and what parts need more work, but overall it's an incredible joy to see her coming to life as the baton is passed from legend to legend. I don't know how this ends, none of us do. But no one wants to ship a bad figure. I think it's been pretty tough to manage expectations on this project. For some people, the archival documentary angle of this project IS some of the product. Seeing the sausage made, even the rough steps. For others, I think people just signed up for the toys they saw, as they saw them. They were always going to change. I understand both perspectives. From my seat, it's been pretty rough waters at times. I let my password stay expired for months on here because the excitement of seeing updates would quickly get stomped out by seeing how some of you guys react. I go through through public reactions all the time for the creative stuff I do in my career but this is just so close to my heart, it hits harder than anything else. I know for the most part you guys don't mean any malice and you should speak your minds.. If you only see this venture's value is being a preorder; it makes me sad but I can't argue with that perspective. I'm definitely not one to come out here and try to tone police everyone, but I can make a plea that you just keep in mind everyone involved wants these figures to be great. You don't have to get on your hands and knees and coach your language in worship, but if you tailor your feedback into actionable items and have a human touch to your concerns, I think it's much more likely you'll be heard and considered. As for me? As always I'm thrilled to hear people liked my original Runback and PACDOG concept. But at this point I'd be sad to see the creative work Mark, Kirk, Carson, Bill and everyone else have put in so far be wiped away. The point of it all to me is to see their hands make a mark at each step. Would I like to see my original concept made as a toy, as is? Conceptually, in a vacuum, yes. But it wouldn't mean as much to me now as a version of the character that these dudes all had a hand in furthering along would. Larry adjusted her backstory to make her the creator of PACDOG, it's a cool change that gives her a much more hands on involvement with her own accessories, Mark tried a whole bunch of ideas and that one with armor clicked with Kirk. If she can design robots, how about she designs other stuff, like her own armor? Carson really liked the vine pattern on one PACDOG concept, because it showed a playful artistic touch to her work so he made the call to put that on her armor. These are all meaningful changes that continue to flesh her out, and I find them exciting. That's the process that birthed so many characters we love and I think it would just be a shame to cut that all out. That said, I totally get that this is just my singular experience, and this toy isn't being made for me, it's being made for everyone that pitched money in. So I just ask that as you guys give feedback, try to think of things that are additive suggestions, rather than subtractive suggestions. Rather than just asking for the old design, call out the particular stuff you miss and how it made you feel, try to think of compromises that can blend the two together. I think the armor is a neat reflection of her adjusted backstory, but you guys miss some of her more casual comfort approach to her uniform. Maybe there is a compromise in the middle there? Maybe it's just about tugging on the ratios of different elements a little bit. Above all though, just try not to lose the joy. Don't lose hope, I promise you feedback is a lot easier to swallow when it comes from a place that's still chasing the excitement. It's probably fair to presume that the general design direction these characters are going in is a lock but I don't think you need to be pessimistic about little adjustments that can continue to add up. There are more steps and more chances to tweak the balance of design factors. We've witnessed so many little ones already at each step! By all means keeps giving your feedback and impressions, especially the critiques, just give it a try from a place of hope and appreciation for the craft. It'll hit someone's ears easier than gloom will. I want to make it super clear that many people here loved your original Runback design. Speaking only for myself, two things attracted me to Runback immediately: her casual and yet still military-colored looks and all the accessories she had specially the functional backpack and the backpack-carrying-robot dog. The whole concept was so refreshing that it made it my favorite figure of the whole project. Having said that, I understand that this is no longer your project only, and I also understand it is in good hands. We all know that the people behind this project is none else but GI Joe RAH's original creators, and we know they know what they are doing. They are adding their creative contributions and that's great but of course, there are always things to improve. First of all, let me mention what seems like positives for me. After closely looking at the schematics and the picture you posted here (https://www.hisstank.com/forum/5664689-post1500.html), I see that Runback's design is basically the same except the color scheme. I also see that the functional backpack with tablet has been kept (thanks!) and that it seems to have been improved as the tablet affixes to her left arm? Whatever it is, this is great, and I like it. Since you mention that we should probably provide actionable feedback, I will try to do so. First suggestion should be very easy - colors: 1. Let's keep the green vest with blue accents. We can keep the vine decorations perhaps in blue or perhaps gray, whatever provides better contrast. I'm not a fan of the camo gray pants and shirt, but we can keep those in case this helps to blend the figure with other figures in the line. If they are there just to go with the original gray-green scheme, then the camo can be changed for plain gray pants and shirt. 2. Bring back the two supply backpacks that go on Pac-Dog. I know that Pac-Dog will fit the carbine with a stand, but I would like to see the original cargo purpose there. Bonus: maybe make this backpacks functional as well. 3. Make her hair to be more prominent. If something lacked in the original line was the lack of feminine features in Scarlett and Cover Girl. So again referring to the later drawing that you made (linked earlier), her front bangs are more prominent here while in the schematics it is barely visible. Let's make them more visible and prominent. I'm sure that, as Thedarkone501 mentioned before, we will probably like this once it is in our hands. To reiterate - many of the changes we have seen in other figures have been welcome in my opinion (Supply Chain, Lilith, Sea Dawg for example). General Mortifero looked better on the original submission though (I liked the bulkier look, and perhaps he would benefit from a darker color scheme, not a fan of the purple/red/gold one). I still have a positive attitude toward this project and high expectations, it is just that Runback is one of the figures I'm more invested in. Last edited by zorman; 11-14-2023 at 01:18 PM.. |
11-14-2023, 01:35 PM | #1609 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,123
|
Quote:
i just came back from spraypainting some toy crap during my break, i want you (dirtbag) and tako to give zica toys a ring and get your designs in o-ring form. not just sol eagle and mortifiero and runback.
their kickstarter didnt cut the mustard because they had two different themes going on; one of which was from a different company who barely has that idea figured out on their own (that fist/safe thing). zica tried to get something with easy kill 9 and it deservedly failed because of it's creator. but if you two put your heads together and figured something out and presented it with zica toys i think it'd be a great thing for everyone. i get the impression zica wants an o-ring line but understands basic storyless figures isnt going to be something that carries it, so they want a theme and to sell pocket people as a supplement line. you guys can do that (figures with some bios and an interconnected story) for them. not even kidding the only two creators in the recall project i had any interest in was both of yours. The ZICA retro project was something else, and sadly, it does not seem to be going to happen. It is a shame because I love the retro RIOT Trooper. |
11-14-2023, 01:37 PM | #1610 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,123
|
Quote:
Thank you for taking the time for providing the feedback. I completely appreciate it. I was confused about the hat being removable, but not biggie if it is not, I just thought it was something changed - thank you for clarifying that.
I want to make it super clear that many people here loved your original Runback design. Speaking only for myself, two things attracted me to Runback immediately: her casual and yet still military-colored looks and all the accessories she had specially the functional backpack and the backpack-carrying-robot dog. The whole concept was so refreshing that it made it my favorite figure of the whole project. Having said that, I understand that this is no longer your project only, and I also understand it is in good hands. We all know that the people behind this project is none else but GI Joe RAH's original creators, and we know they know what they are doing. They are adding their creative contributions and that's great but of course, there are always things to improve. First of all, let me mention what seems like positives for me. After closely looking at the schematics and the picture you posted here (https://www.hisstank.com/forum/5664689-post1500.html), I see that Runback's design is basically the same except the color scheme. I also see that the functional backpack with tablet has been kept (thanks!) and that it seems to have been improved as the tablet affixes to her left arm? Whatever it is, this is great, and I like it. Since you mention that we should probably provide actionable feedback, I will try to do so. First suggestion should be very easy - colors: 1. Let's keep the green vest with blue accents. We can keep the vine decorations perhaps in blue or perhaps gray, whatever provides better contrast. I'm not a fan of the camo gray pants and shirt, but we can keep those in case this helps to blend the figure with other figures in the line. If they are there just to go with the original gray-green scheme, then the camo can be changed for plain gray pants and shirt. 2. Bring back the two supply backpacks that go on Pac-Dog. I know that Pac-Dog will fit the carbine with a stand, but I would like to see the original cargo purpose there. Bonus: maybe make this backpacks functional as well. 3. Make her hair to be more prominent. If something lacked in the original line was the lack of feminine features in Scarlett and Cover Girl. So again referring to the later drawing that you made (linked earlier), her front bangs are more prominent here while in the schematics it is barely visible. Let's make them more visible and prominent. I'm sure that, as Thedarkone501 mentioned before, we will probably like this once it is in our hands. To reiterate - many of the changes we have seen in other figures have been welcome in my opinion (Supply Chain, Lilith, Sea Dawg for example). General Mortifero looked better on the original submission though (I liked the bulkier look, and perhaps he would benefit from a darker color scheme, not a fan of the purple/red/gold one). I still have a positive attitude toward this project and high expectations, it is just that Runback is one of the figures I'm more invested in. |
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