[SpideyAZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediJones

This wave is yet more confirmation after Zartan and Viper that Hasbro has responded to the criticism of wave 1 and 2 and changed course on the line. They have followed the classic designs 90%+ of the way on almost all of the 2021 figures. And even Firefly is a reality-inspired update, not a cartoonish change. No more gold guns, no more gold armor-plating, not a lot of weird stripes added to the costumes and no more cartoonish facial features. This line is finally delivering what the fans expected in the first place.

Hasbro's pivot to the fan's demand of the line is sensible but begs the question - How did market research not know what consumers wanted?

[MFJayman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpideyAZ

Hasbro's pivot to the fan's demand of the line is sensible but begs the question - How did market research not know what consumers wanted?

Well, there was the game, and those early Classified figures were in line with the game designs.

I still prefer a mix in the line, some figures being 90% classic like JediJones says, when it is sensible, but others, push it a little more, POC style. Remember POC Recondo? That was a cool design, clearly not classic, but still had the essence of Recondo.



Update the heck out of Scarlett. Keep the Crimson Guard very classic. Update the Cobra Trooper (which they did). Keep Zartan very classic (which they did). One approach doesn't fit every character. Some warrant a 10% update. Some 50%. I've liked Lenny's design approach overall, and damn, I want to see what new characters he could design! Sometimes those are among the coolest, like Helix and Shadow Tracker.

[jscott991]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFJayman

I still prefer a mix in the line, some figures being 90% classic like JediJones says, when it is sensible, but others, push it a little more, POC style. Remember POC Recondo?
Update the heck out of Scarlett. Keep the Crimson Guard very classic. Update the Cobra Trooper (which they did). Keep Zartan very classic (which they did). One approach doesn't fit every character. Some warrant a 10% update. Some 50%. I've liked Lenny's design approach overall, and damn, I want to see what new characters he could design! Sometimes those are among the coolest, like Helix and Shadow Tracker.

Out of curiosity, are you collecting the Classified figures? Do you have them displayed? Honest question.

The problem with your approach, even if you like the individual looks of all the figures (and I'm on record saying that there are a few I absolutely do not like), is that they don't fit together at all. Scarlett does not look right next to Beach Head, Destro, Snake Eyes, the Cobra Trooper, and Baroness. She barely fits with Duke. Her color scheme (and Road Block's too, but I don't own him) is so out of whack that she really does look like she is from an entirely different action figure line (her face is also the most cartoony of the bunch).

I think the sculptor in this line is doing a great job. The face sculpts for Scarlett, Baroness, and Duke are good to amazing (there isn't much to do with Destro, Snake Eyes, or the Trooper, but they are solid too). They never had that record of success with 3.75", where each hit seemed followed by a miss. But the paint scheme for the early figures didn't live up to the sculpts.

They've definitely changed their approach. They switched color schemes for Cobra Commander, the Trooper, Gung Ho, and Baroness (based on how the art looks). Lady Jaye got simplified from her Blackout look (which seemed incomplete anyway).

It's for the best. Stick with simple color schemes. Even if you change the costumes a bit from the vintage line, just make sure everything fits together and doesn't look silly. They've had a few waves now that were very cohesive and successful. Let's keep that momentum going and not back slide to the Scarlett/Road Block level.

[TheSteelBrigade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackKnight73

I can see what you mean and agree. The extra joints can make a negative impact to a figures aesthetic.

While I used to be excited about more articulation, especially when Toy Biz Marvel Legends first came out all those years ago. Honestly, I would be happy if all companies dialed back some of the articulation. Just a little bit.

No, no, no, no, no NO! Lol. I am relieved that they are finally giving us more articulation for the female figures. But then again, I buy figures mainly for toy photography and I love posing figures. I hate a lot of McFarlane figures for this reason.

[MFJayman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott991

Out of curiosity, are you collecting the Classified figures? Do you have them displayed? Honest question.

The problem with your approach, even if you like the individual looks of all the figures (and I'm on record saying that there are a few I absolutely do not like), is that they don't fit together at all. Scarlett does not look right next to Beach Head, Destro, Snake Eyes, the Cobra Trooper, and Baroness. She barely fits with Duke. Her color scheme (and Road Block's too, but I don't own him) is so out of whack that she really does look like she is from an entirely different action figure line (her face is also the most cartoony of the bunch).

I think the sculptor in this line is doing a great job. The face sculpts for Scarlett, Baroness, and Duke are good to amazing (there isn't much to do with Destro, Snake Eyes, or the Trooper, but they are solid too). They never had that record of success with 3.75", where each hit seemed followed by a miss. But the paint scheme for the early figures didn't live up to the sculpts.

They've definitely changed their approach. They switched color schemes for Cobra Commander, the Trooper, Gung Ho, and Baroness (based on how the art looks). Lady Jaye got simplified from her Blackout look (which seemed incomplete anyway).

It's for the best. Stick with simple color schemes. Even if you change the costumes a bit from the vintage line, just make sure everything fits together and doesn't look silly. They've had a few waves now that were very cohesive and successful. Let's keep that momentum going and not back slide to the Scarlett/Road Block level.

I skipped a few figures, including Scarlett, both RB's, Red Ninja, Beachhead (he seems dull, I'll wait for the next one), and never scored a Baroness (I'll get the next release).

But I do agree, that it's best that they toned down the gold and gaudy extremes, but weren't Scarlett and Roadblock the worst offenders? Even in wave one, Duke was far less gaudy than even Roadblock, he's still a favorite of mine.

Sometimes I can't tell if what someone doesn't like about figures is the gold and specific design extremes, or just that they aren't 90% classic. I think the Cobra Trooper is a very good test for people, because he is clearly a popular and liked design, but he certainly isn't classic, in the sense that Zartan, Lady Jaye or even the Baroness are. If a design is cool and badass enough does that override the necessity for it to be 90% ARAH-classic?

A few figures certainly do not fit very well in the line, but I think they worked those kinks out pretty early on. Maybe I'm forgetting some later wave figures, but mostly, Scarlett and Roadblock stand out to me as early offenders.

[jscott991]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFJayman

Sometimes I can't tell if what someone doesn't like about figures is the gold and specific design extremes, or just that they aren't 90% classic.

I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I think the gaudy, extreme color schemes are more offensive than any deviations from the vintage outfits. I will admit that I prefer they all be as close to their ARAH/Sunbow outfits as possible, but I don't think a Cobra Trooper that looks like he is wearing blue pajamas (like the Sunbow trooper) would look very good. That's why I like that the trooper we got is more like the POC version than vintage.

But the design can turn me off too. I don't like Cobra Commander. The gold chain, the weird uniform jacket (what is going on with his collar? if you look closely at it makes no sense at all). and the glove and boot sculpts just don't do it for me, even with the simplified color schemes of the retail release.

I also don't think a repainted Scarlett would help that much either. Her outfit redesign is absurd (the strange pants texture, the bits of armor in random spots, the oddly upside down quiver) so even new colors don't help her that much (although some customizers who repainted her head and hair have shown just how nice the head sculpt really is).

So for me not liking a figure is a mix of how classic it is and just how good it looks. The best figures in this line so far are Baroness (very classic) and the Trooper (more PoC than vintage).

[SpideyAZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFJayman

Well, there was the game, and those early Classified figures were in line with the game designs.

I still prefer a mix in the line, some figures being 90% classic like JediJones says, when it is sensible, but others, push it a little more, POC style. Remember POC Recondo? That was a cool design, clearly not classic, but still had the essence of Recondo.

Update the heck out of Scarlett. Keep the Crimson Guard very classic. Update the Cobra Trooper (which they did). Keep Zartan very classic (which they did). One approach doesn't fit every character. Some warrant a 10% update. Some 50%. I've liked Lenny's design approach overall, and damn, I want to see what new characters he could design! Sometimes those are among the coolest, like Helix and Shadow Tracker.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The entire line cannot be perfect vintage interpretations and I do want to see updated interpretations. Retaliation CG does that where the 25th did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott991

Out of curiosity, are you collecting the Classified figures? Do you have them displayed? Honest question.

The problem with your approach, even if you like the individual looks of all the figures (and I'm on record saying that there are a few I absolutely do not like), is that they don't fit together at all. Scarlett does not look right next to Beach Head, Destro, Snake Eyes, the Cobra Trooper, and Baroness. She barely fits with Duke. Her color scheme (and Road Block's too, but I don't own him) is so out of whack that she really does look like she is from an entirely different action figure line (her face is also the most cartoony of the bunch).

You nailed it with the fit factor. The Joe team's uniformity is off.

[Arishikage]

I think the updating is a good thing, but MAN do I want a classic-looking B.A.T.! That's one spot where the newer design just doesn't hit me the same way.

Some things would probably be just fine as a colour variant, like a Stinger driver, Cobra Officer (not just an armband), or maybe some Python Patrol troops.

But there are some designs where they could probably really mix it up, and I don't think the figure would suffer for it. Like tele-vipers, or Airtight. Anyone especially attached to the design of the Annihilator?

[smug vic]

we're still missing figures 16-20 and have yet to see anyone out of the ordinary unless you count the random PDD and Arctic SS.

[TheSteelBrigade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFJayman

I skipped a few figures, including Scarlett, both RB's, Red Ninja, Beachhead (he seems dull, I'll wait for the next one), and never scored a Baroness (I'll get the next release).

But I do agree, that it's best that they toned down the gold and gaudy extremes, but weren't Scarlett and Roadblock the worst offenders? Even in wave one, Duke was far less gaudy than even Roadblock, he's still a favorite of mine.

Sometimes I can't tell if what someone doesn't like about figures is the gold and specific design extremes, or just that they aren't 90% classic. I think the Cobra Trooper is a very good test for people, because he is clearly a popular and liked design, but he certainly isn't classic, in the sense that Zartan, Lady Jaye or even the Baroness are. If a design is cool and badass enough does that override the necessity for it to be 90% ARAH-classic?

A few figures certainly do not fit very well in the line, but I think they worked those kinks out pretty early on. Maybe I'm forgetting some later wave figures, but mostly, Scarlett and Roadblock stand out to me as early offenders.

Agreed. Even the much maligned Roadblock is 90% a straight update of v2 ARAH Roadblock. I personally love the figure. Scarlett is the only radical departure and she is still the best Scarlett ever made IMO. I have 5 Red Ninjas and 3 more on order because they work with Joes and Marvel Legends.

Joe fans have to face the facts that this line is built to cater to the new breed of 1/12, multi-brand action figure fan.