[hardcorps]

totally forgot about this. I was on the edge of backing it, glad I didn't.

[firmpulse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias13

*sigh*

Yet more nonsense from people that don't pay attention to the contracts they agree to and don't understand the risks of running a DIY toy company but are 100% certain of an internet stranger's intentions.

*sigh*

Yet another line of idiocy from someone that confuses outright lies with the actual "risks of running a DIY toy company". Then feigns surprise when backers are mad about buying a bill of goods from a liar and thief.

Folk got took. It's real. It happen(ed)s. Quit gaslighting, punk.

[Ozymandias13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmpulse

*sigh*

Yet another line of idiocy from someone that confuses outright lies with the actual "risks of running a DIY toy company". Then feigns surprise when backers are mad about buying a bill of goods from a liar and thief.

Folk got took. It's real. It happen(ed)s. Quit gaslighting, punk.

Do you have any proof or do you just have name-calling?

[wmichben]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias13

Do you have any proof or do you just have name-calling?

When someone takes the money and runs without explanation, what more proof do you need?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...amerz/comments

[fogger1138]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmichben

When someone takes the money and runs without explanation, what more proof do you need?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...amerz/comments

I'm just as irritated as anyone else by the loss of my money and the utter lack of explanation/communication/update. HOWEVER, a failure to communicate is in no way *proof* of ill-intent or that Solomon "took the money and ran". Basically, the angry mob has decided that because Solomon isn't updating us, that he stole all of our money. That doesn't follow.
There's a lot of people in this thread who seem to think this is a binary situation: either we get our figures, or Solomon's a crook who stole our money and meant to do so from the get-go, and there's no room for anything in between. It's entirely possible that he can't refund our money because he spent it trying to get the products made and it's all gone.

We know, though, that prototyping and tooling was paid for at the factory and that some parts were produced. We've seen these, not just posted by Solomon but by third-parties. That's evidence that money was taken by the factory, which stands in direct opposition to the idea that Solomon "ran off" with it.

• Has the project failed? Pretty safe assumption at this point.
• Has Solomon been as forthcoming or open as I think he should be about what's going on? Absolutely not. There's been a complete lack of communication on this that's unacceptable.
• Has the project failed because of poor management/failure to research the factory/failure to understand what's involved in manufacturing/too high standards/other reasons? You could make a strong argument for these things.
• Does any of the above mean that he deliberately stole from us, or that this was all a big scam? Not at all.

Hanlon's razor applies here.

[Sean_C]

I guess Elizabeth Holmes had her defenders, too.

[IzzyTipsy]

I would think if factories are dumping his parts he should have been obligated to get those parts and at least send them to the people who paid for them, right?

Glad I avoid kickstarting

[RolandofGilead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fogger1138

I'm just as irritated as anyone else by the loss of my money and the utter lack of explanation/communication/update. HOWEVER, a failure to communicate is in no way *proof* of ill-intent or that Solomon "took the money and ran". Basically, the angry mob has decided that because Solomon isn't updating us, that he stole all of our money. That doesn't follow.
There's a lot of people in this thread who seem to think this is a binary situation: either we get our figures, or Solomon's a crook who stole our money and meant to do so from the get-go, and there's no room for anything in between. It's entirely possible that he can't refund our money because he spent it trying to get the products made and it's all gone.

We know, though, that prototyping and tooling was paid for at the factory and that some parts were produced. We've seen these, not just posted by Solomon but by third-parties. That's evidence that money was taken by the factory, which stands in direct opposition to the idea that Solomon "ran off" with it.

• Has the project failed? Pretty safe assumption at this point.
• Has Solomon been as forthcoming or open as I think he should be about what's going on? Absolutely not. There's been a complete lack of communication on this that's unacceptable.
• Has the project failed because of poor management/failure to research the factory/failure to understand what's involved in manufacturing/too high standards/other reasons? You could make a strong argument for these things.
• Does any of the above mean that he deliberately stole from us, or that this was all a big scam? Not at all.

Hanlon's razor applies here.

I accept this as entirely likely. He set out to make the toyline he dreamed up but it apparently failed thanks to factories that didn?t do what they said they would. This is not entirely the fault of the creator but there is a question of due diligence. He didn’t run off with our money, but it does appear he high tailed it when it all came crashing down. That is unless one day he comes back with a new plan and a thorough explanation.

[fogger1138]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean_C

I guess Elizabeth Holmes had her defenders, too.

*eyeroll*

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandofGilead

I accept this as entirely likely. He set out to make the toyline he dreamed up but it apparently failed thanks to factories that didn?t do what they said they would. This is not entirely the fault of the creator but there is a question of due diligence. He didn?t run off with our money, but it does appear he high tailed it when it all came crashing down. That is unless one day he comes back with a new plan and a thorough explanation.

Yup - certainly he ran off when it got hard. I strongly doubt there was any money left at that point, though.

[wehrmanm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fogger1138

I'm just as irritated as anyone else by the loss of my money and the utter lack of explanation/communication/update. HOWEVER, a failure to communicate is in no way *proof* of ill-intent or that Solomon "took the money and ran". Basically, the angry mob has decided that because Solomon isn't updating us, that he stole all of our money. That doesn't follow.
There's a lot of people in this thread who seem to think this is a binary situation: either we get our figures, or Solomon's a crook who stole our money and meant to do so from the get-go, and there's no room for anything in between. It's entirely possible that he can't refund our money because he spent it trying to get the products made and it's all gone.

We know, though, that prototyping and tooling was paid for at the factory and that some parts were produced. We've seen these, not just posted by Solomon but by third-parties. That's evidence that money was taken by the factory, which stands in direct opposition to the idea that Solomon "ran off" with it.

• Has the project failed? Pretty safe assumption at this point.
• Has Solomon been as forthcoming or open as I think he should be about what's going on? Absolutely not. There's been a complete lack of communication on this that's unacceptable.
• Has the project failed because of poor management/failure to research the factory/failure to understand what's involved in manufacturing/too high standards/other reasons? You could make a strong argument for these things.
• Does any of the above mean that he deliberately stole from us, or that this was all a big scam? Not at all.

Hanlon's razor applies here.

This is a fair summary, however based on that, you really only take issue with the "and runs" portion of what wmichben was saying. He took the money and there's been no explanation.

That's plenty to be upset/angry about, full stop. If we quibble about "thief or not?" we're missing the bigger picture that consumers willingly gave over money and got nothing of what was promised in return - and zero transparency on how badly it (if it did) fell apart.