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08-28-2014, 10:10 AM | #21 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,580
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Quote:
But yes, she did have a tendency to portray Mandalorians as ubercompetent super-soldiers, and the Jedi as spineless, borderline evil incompetents (except, of course, for the select few that came to embrace (sometimes literally!) the Mandalorians and their way of life). Don't get me wrong: A lot of what she added to the Mandalorian culture and history was very interesting and cool (and it was a shame how much of it got pitched), and she IS a good writer for military-style adventures. I don't even mind the idea that a Mandalorian can beat a Jedi one-on-one, but to my mind you put "top-level" before "Mandalorian" and "low-to-mid level" before "Jedi" when you make that statement. I mean, Jango Fett managed to stalemate Obi-Wan Kenobi when he was still a Jedi Knight...but we saw what happened when he had the misfortune of ending up in the crosshairs of Mace Windu. Even the most badass Mandalorian in the Galaxy didn't last 5 seconds against a top-level Master. I just had problems with the way she tended to clearly play favorites, pushing the Mandalorians to near Mary-Sue levels along the way. Which makes me reaaaaaaally curious as to how she's going to portray the Ninja aspects of G.I. Joe, though I don't know how that's been handled in IDW so far. Is she going to delve into them and develop them like she did the Mandalorians? Or is she going to downplay them in favor of whichever faction/characters she decides should be better? |
08-28-2014, 10:39 AM | #22 |
I LIVE!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Altus, OK
Posts: 6,087
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I don't know, I think her Gears of War and Halo work are likely better representations of the kind of output I think we should expect. With Star Wars, I think she was just given too much creative freedom (in a brand she didn't own, so then subject to others' whims), where as with the prior two, she was working within established characters and universes.
In those two cases, I've greatly enjoyed her work, and the novel generally did a good job balancing character, action, with more than a little scifi. I think that is good mix for GI Joe. I'm almost leaning towards the "gritty realism" as marketing speak at this point, I'm not sure IDW Joe can GET any more "gritty and realistic" than what we've gotten (to the book's detriment, IMO). As is, the ninjas have had relatively minor roles within the IDW Joe verse, so I wouldn't be adverse to seeing the ninja angle played up again, especially coming off of Retaliation.
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08-28-2014, 11:05 AM | #23 |
Ex-Pharisee
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace
Posts: 12,216
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I just started on the IDW series last week. I've read quite a bit already. I am primarily a "Marvel/Hama" guy, so Hama's IDW ARAH is gospel to me, but I have to say I've really enjoyed the IDW series. It's an alternate to the Joe we know, but still recognizable as Joe. And it is "grittier" than what, I think, we are used to. It's not as graphic as, say, Game of Thrones, but it paints real pictures. I still like ARAH better, but I'm definitely into these comics.
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08-28-2014, 11:19 AM | #24 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
My understanding is that it was more like a 50/50 of "let go" and "quit in protest" after she found out that the Clone Wars series was going to pave over 90 percent of her work.
But yes, she did have a tendency to portray Mandalorians as ubercompetent super-soldiers, and the Jedi as spineless, borderline evil incompetents (except, of course, for the select few that came to embrace (sometimes literally!) the Mandalorians and their way of life). Don't get me wrong: A lot of what she added to the Mandalorian culture and history was very interesting and cool (and it was a shame how much of it got pitched), and she IS a good writer for military-style adventures. I don't even mind the idea that a Mandalorian can beat a Jedi one-on-one, but to my mind you put "top-level" before "Mandalorian" and "low-to-mid level" before "Jedi" when you make that statement. I mean, Jango Fett managed to stalemate Obi-Wan Kenobi when he was still a Jedi Knight...but we saw what happened when he had the misfortune of ending up in the crosshairs of Mace Windu. Even the most badass Mandalorian in the Galaxy didn't last 5 seconds against a top-level Master. I just had problems with the way she tended to clearly play favorites, pushing the Mandalorians to near Mary-Sue levels along the way. Which makes me reaaaaaaally curious as to how she's going to portray the Ninja aspects of G.I. Joe, though I don't know how that's been handled in IDW so far. Is she going to delve into them and develop them like she did the Mandalorians? Or is she going to downplay them in favor of whichever faction/characters she decides should be better? I often wonder why people get so upset about a Mandalorion being able to take on a Jedi. Why would anyone assume Jango Fett is the most bad ass Mando ever, when he's the only one we ever see in the movies? For all we know he could be an average Mandalorian. Why isn't he off leading other Mandos, if he's the best? Also, aren't the Jedi usually Mary Sues in the stories told from their perspective?
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html Last edited by blackrazor1; 08-29-2014 at 03:32 AM.. |
08-28-2014, 11:48 PM | #25 |
The Viper is Not Coming
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cobra-La
Posts: 1,532
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This is really a huge toss up for me. Some things I really like what is being said but Kurth as an artist can either be really really good or really really not as good. and I can't tell if it's how he is being directed to draw or it's the colorist or what. I'm also not a fan of time jumps. To me it's a lazy get out of jail free card used when writers dig themselves into a hole. This may not necessarily be the authors choice though and probably more of an IDW thing and on the same hand this allows them to get rid of certain characters and put others front and center without really telling us what happened because I doubt anyone cares what happened to billdocker, mad monk, hashtag, or firewall over the 6 year time lap.
Another thing I'm unsure about is the plot sounds more less exactly like Renegades with a dash of Retaliation. Anyways, I'm hopeful and will approach this with joy nonetheless.
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08-29-2014, 05:05 AM | #26 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lafayette La
Posts: 8,741
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Quote:
I don't know, I think her Gears of War and Halo work are likely better representations of the kind of output I think we should expect. With Star Wars, I think she was just given too much creative freedom (in a brand she didn't own, so then subject to others' whims), where as with the prior two, she was working within established characters and universes.
In those two cases, I've greatly enjoyed her work, and the novel generally did a good job balancing character, action, with more than a little scifi. I think that is good mix for GI Joe. I'm almost leaning towards the "gritty realism" as marketing speak at this point, I'm not sure IDW Joe can GET any more "gritty and realistic" than what we've gotten (to the book's detriment, IMO). As is, the ninjas have had relatively minor roles within the IDW Joe verse, so I wouldn't be adverse to seeing the ninja angle played up again, especially coming off of Retaliation. I can just see her writing a comic series detailing how Cobra's actions are justified because the Joe's are really a group over reactionary self absorbed douchenozzles. Cobra Commander taking control of the world and instituting policy that would make Stalin wish he had thought of it first is better than letting a war criminal like Flint go free or worse remain in active service. |
08-29-2014, 11:23 AM | #27 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: france
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Any time I see "G.I. Joe" and "gritty" in the same paragraph, I worry. Not that serious stories can't be good for Joe (see the G.I. Joe: Cobra series), but typically that's not what Joe has been about; even Hama at his peak was more about fun than realism. But, hey, if a realistic take on Joe what we need for it to succeed as a comic, that's fine with me.
Actually, I wonder, on a broader level, what is it that today's fans want from Joe. Should it be lighthearted like it was when we were kids (like in, say, the G.I. Joe/Danger Girl crossover miniseries), or should it be aged up, mature, and "gritty"? Action, laugh, good suits like the toys, not a death every issue. i haven't read the cobra civil war and cobra command saga, but the idw saga managed for me to release some good tpb (5 in my collection), i hope they will manage to make stories as good as "resolute". |
08-29-2014, 11:53 AM | #28 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,617
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Quote:
I liked that she brought up some issues with the clone army that the movies glossed over (lack of agency for the clones, the accelerated aging, the morality of the Jedi being willing leaders of a slave army, cost-benefit of healthcare for a disposable soldier). How do you treat soldiers conceived and raised for the sole purpose of fighting a war that doesn't benefit them?
I often wonder why people get so upset about a Mandalorion being able to take on a Jedi. Why would anyone assume Jango Fett is the most bad ass Mando ever, when he's the only one we ever see in the movies? For all we know he could be an average Mandalorian. Why isn't he off leading other Mandos, if he's the best? Also, aren't the Jedi usually Mary Sues in the stories told from their perspective? To me, it makes no sense that a highly trained warrior is a match for another highly trained warrior when the second also has the benefit of things like precognition, moderate superhuman speed, strength and agility and telekinesis at the most basic levels of talent. I agree the best Mandelorians can defeat the lesser Jedi, but Jedi are supposed to be the Elite character class in the Star Wars Universe and the best warriors only matched in general by the Sith. That's kinda the point of it all. I have not read any of her novels, but from what I gather some people really liked the insight of our own western political values into the Rebublic (IE, the uncontroversial ideas on the attrociousness of slavery), its that she just took a bias against the Jedi too far and made them into hapless fighters.
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08-29-2014, 04:34 PM | #29 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 821
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I'm very excited to see one of my favorite Star Wars authors writing GI Joe!
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08-29-2014, 06:02 PM | #30 |
Sergeant
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 734
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Quote:
Holy Hell, I hope her work on the Halo novels isn't an example of how things will go in this new comic. With the Haloverse she managed to strip away both the science and military aspects of a Military Science Fiction story. She turned a crew of battle hardened genetically, chemically and physically enhanced super soldiers, and veteran special warfare operatives into a bunch of whiny ass bitches. In 300 pages there was two or three action scenes while every thing else was dedicated to folks talking about their feelings. Then she proceeded to brow beat me and every other reader with her own moral judgement on tertiary character while glossing over even more heinous crimes by other characters in her own story.
I can just see her writing a comic series detailing how Cobra's actions are justified because the Joe's are really a group over reactionary self absorbed douchenozzles. Cobra Commander taking control of the world and instituting policy that would make Stalin wish he had thought of it first is better than letting a war criminal like Flint go free or worse remain in active service. |
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