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05-02-2013, 08:45 PM | #41 |
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Feel free to keep arguing all you want Steve.
This isn't another case of un-merited fan boy rage, such as someone returning to the hobby in 2008, and having no clue about how retail, distribution or a business is run or any of the other important facts that count that guys that have stuck with the brand since 1994 and attend every con know and want to pass along in their infinite wisdom to enlighten a newbie. Quote:
This line has been run with unprofessionalism and no plan whatsoever. There is no denying this, and you're doing no one a service by falling under the assumption that you're in the right with your comments and defending their strategies over the last 6 years.
Their strategy hasn't worked. It's why they come to being stuck with a movie that was more successful than they had thought, why retailers are hesistant to carry the brand and why so much of their existing consumer base are irate with them. This isn't the fault of those who have remained loyal to the brand since 2007, or even longer, nor the fault of factory workers in China wanting a decent wage, or even the 800lb gorilla in the room, Wal-Mart. This comes from disorganization, chaos, no long term plan and lack of faith in it's own product in plastic and on film. Out of all of Hasbro's brands, though, I think GI Joe has probably suffered most from outside forces: -GI Joe 25th was meant as a limited run line, because of success was expanded (unplanned) -GI Joe Resolute was the big brand focus in 2009...got keel hauled by a movie which was supposed to elevated the brand. -PoC got bumped over 6 months as a result of under-performance of RoC toys and to "distance" the new product from the movie -Because of movie 2, PoC was cut short and 30th bumped up to avoid running into the movie toyline -Paramount, at the last minute, bumps GI Joe 2 9 months, leaving Hasbro with PILES of produced but unsellable merchandise and no plan for 2012 (because the movie WAS the plan). -Even this year, while they have a movie, it's no longer a "summer event" and the DVD will out and done by fall, effectively costing them any sort of Christmas push a DVD would have provided (by October/November, the focus will be on the DVDs for Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel) And ultimately, all the "big media efforts" just haven't worked thus far in really elevating the brand. Alpha vehicles weren't produced in 2011 because the ones 2010 DIDN'T SELL. There were fewer Bravos produced in 2011 because the 2010 ones DIDN'T SELL WELL. All the organization doesn't mean squat if the brand just isn't selling to begin with. Going forward, what effect will Retaliation have? I don't know. All we know is that the FILM was successful enough to warrant a sequel from Paramount, which guarantees Hasbro another movie toyline to play with. But the issue that arises is...if Paramount fast tracked a sequel, it could hit as early as 2015, but it might not. Should Hasbro plan a big media event (series or animated feature) for that year, knowing if Paramount fast tracks a film, their plan is rendered moot (GI Joe clearly isn't capable of supporting multiple branding elements like Star Wars or Transformers)? So I agree the brand has been extremely disorganized...I'm just not sure all the blame rests with Hasbro (though I DO feel they better have some sort of big media push next year to piggyback the 50th Anniversary attention they'll get) Quote:
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When Brian Goldner is given a question, that's directly related to the specific brand of G I Joe, and he dances around it, it is not because it isn't performing as well as Hasbro wants. It is because at the moment, He and the rest of his team have no plan for the brand because they have sat on their asses for the last year assuming that Retaliation would tank and the toyline would follow.
He is just so far up the tree, about all he is apt to know about Joe is that his company makes them, and they got a moderately successful film this year (and the remark from the frontpage WAS NOT solely about GI Joe, as the statement can or could apply to just about any of Hasbro's brands). Darryl DePriest though.... I think he is a great manager, and a real fan (he was probably the reason we got both the Skystriker AND the Tomahawk). But I kind of have started to view him as our "ToyGuru": He is very much a fan, but lacks a creative vision to take GI Joe in a new direction (and I'm not a fan of how he seems to be the catalyst for repeatedly digging up the 12" carcass, pushing mediocre figures that JUST DON'T SELL). As a fan, it seems Joe is "passion project" for him, and while we've benefitted with stuff like the Skystriker and Tomahawk, I think the for brand to grow, we need new blood. We need someone willing to take a chance on the brand in new direction, even at the expense of collectors (I'm not talking "new scale", but longtime 0-ring fans weren't too enthusiastic about the "mainline" direction of GI Joe in the NuSculpt days despite the success they benefitted from). Along with a management that will support GI Joe beyond simply holding retail space for the next movie line.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealDubya
Any sort of panic at this stage is just pure unsubstantiated reptile brain stem fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokePants
This is why companies are secretive -- because we all want the truth, but most of us cannot handle it.
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05-02-2013, 10:35 PM | #42 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,038
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Quote:
I have to raise a bit of fuss here:
25th was wrapped in favor of Resolute. Had the film not been released that year, the product likely would have continued the transition to Resolute product anyway (And again, the 25th "branding" was pretty much done by mid-2008, from a retailer perspective). As for the poor sale of vehicles in 2010 and 2011 and probably 2012 and 2013... Hasbro needs a few fresh molds. We have had 4 of the same AWE Striker molds since 2008, 4x Ferrets, 4x HISS's (5 counting the SDCC), 3 or 4 Water Moccasins, several motorcycles that just don't sell, and some redone pieces form the 80's like the FLAK, SNAKE armor, and some play sets. If targeting new audiences, I dont know how well they did. As a lifelong fan, I have passed on some but bought most. I think they need to do some buyer analysis. I bet, the majority are 30+ males that grew up with GI JOE, not kids as they claim. I look at the SW line and recall how well it was doing 5-6 years ago and wonder what happened to that brand. I bet they have as many Luke figures as we have SE, CC, SS or Duke. Yet that line is rapidly dying, even as they continue to release new characters from the films. I think i am rambling now... probably should disregard most of what you just read. Sorry for wasting your time. Last edited by cardensb; 05-02-2013 at 10:49 PM.. |
05-02-2013, 10:46 PM | #43 |
Filecard Maker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,300
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Sounds like corperate doublespeak for were not really sure where we're going but we certainly don't wanna say no to anything just incase the wind blows and we get a wild hair up our ass.
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05-03-2013, 01:38 AM | #44 |
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Resolute was INTENDED as the big media event for GI Joe of 2009. A majority of the figures and products would have "transitioned" to Resolute packaging in support of that (like how 25th transitioned to Modern Era), like the comic packs, which had NOTHING to do with Resolute aside from sporting the logo for branding. Resolute was cut short because of Rise of Cobra (which had a STUPIDLY short production time, it basically went from script to screen in less than a year, with visual production work occurring the SAME TIME as filming). The idea being that, like Transformers or Star Wars Episode 3, the feature film would bring more attention and sales than the media push Hasbro was planning on. Plan didn't work so well Quote:
As for the poor sale of vehicles in 2010 and 2011 and probably 2012 and 2013... Hasbro needs a few fresh molds. We have had 4 of the same AWE Striker molds since 2008, 4x Ferrets, 4x HISS's (5 counting the SDCC), 3 or 4 Water Moccasins, several motorcycles that just don't sell, and some redone pieces form the 80's like the FLAK, SNAKE armor, and some play sets. If targeting new audiences, I dont know how well they did. As a lifelong fan, I have passed on some but bought most. I think they need to do some buyer analysis. I bet, the majority are 30+ males that grew up with GI JOE, not kids as they claim.
To be honest, given the amount of resources likely expended in those vehicles (especially the SkyHawk and Moccasin since Hasbro was basically remaking both, along with a majority of the 25th vehicles for that matter), the decision to retread vehicles is probably influenced by trying to capture collectors. Collectors aren't asking for "new vehicle concepts", the most audible complaint is "more vehicles from my youth remade". Which is why we've seen so many of the same vehicles retreaded: They are done, they were not cheap to do, and collectors (as a whole) generally buy them (even the upteenth AWE Striker). Quote:
I look at the SW line and recall how well it was doing 5-6 years ago and wonder what happened to that brand. I bet they have as many Luke figures as we have SE, CC, SS or Duke. Yet that line is rapidly dying, even as they continue to release new characters from the films.
Too much product Failure to capture new audiences (the 5 year old brought in Episode 3 would be into his pre-teen years by 2011, the 5 year old brought in with Clone Wars in 2008 is now 10, and likely aged out of action figures, so what has been there to capture new kids, and are they find the "key characters"?) For all the collector fuss about reused characters...I've personally found it EXTREMELY difficult to find a Fett (either), Luke Skywalker, Han Solo or Darth Vader, and even Yoda and the droids with any sort of regularity over the past 2 years or so. As much as collectors piss and moan over "core characters" in many brands, keeping those characters available keeps the line accessible to new consumers. I think the biggest failing of Star Wars was it got too collector focused and forgot how important it was to keep certain characters available.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealDubya
Any sort of panic at this stage is just pure unsubstantiated reptile brain stem fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokePants
This is why companies are secretive -- because we all want the truth, but most of us cannot handle it.
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05-03-2013, 08:13 PM | #45 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,545
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But there's more than 10 brand there :p That's what confused me
But yeah, those are Hasbro's "top brands", though I'd maybe place Playskool a tad higher (unless referring to the international angle, Fisher Price might still be dominant in those markets). Hasbro did post a company wide revenue graph, which isn't helpful since about 2007, they've had a movie of some sort every single year, but it IS interesting to see how revenues exploded in 2007 with Transformers and Spider-Man 3 (Star Wars had a pretty big push that year as well). There IS such a graph for Transformers though: http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-...1360336521.jpg Interesting to note that Hasbro's lowest year revenues for Transformers was 2010 when they did NOT have any sort of major media (TF Prime didn't premiere until November of that year). Followed by 2012, where leftover movie stuff constituted 1/3-1/2 of the product for over half the year. But what about the fandom?! Won't someone PLEASE think of the FANDOM?! (Realistically, I think a stronger superhero angle, ala, the Valor vs Venom and Sigma Six days are still a valid angle) Just speculation....but is Hasbro for the near term future, with our customer base, focusing on being a toy maker for Disney? This might explain why Hasbro appears to be confused on what to do with the success of Retaliation. Correct me if i am wrong, but the 3 brands on that "top 10 list" that have the same customer base as G.I. joe...is Marvel, Star Wars, and Transformers. The 1st two are owned by Disney The last, owned by G.I joe/Takara, is currently (not forever) enjoying the spoils from blockbuster Michael Bay movies. While Disney is continuing to do a major push with the Marvel franchise, they are also have plans to do the same with SW (a flic every year). This will be alot of movie line toys for Hasbro to make. I think Hasbro has to answer the follwing question before they do anything: Take a risk by investing in their own brands in a tougher market....or just be happy making alot of Marvel and SW toys for Disney. Just speculation, but What are your thoughts... |
05-03-2013, 09:32 PM | #46 |
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And I'm still not sure how "successful" Retaliation has been from a toy standpoint. Remember, Hasbro doesn't see any direct compensation of the actual film. Boom or bust, Hasbro only really benefits when the brand is elevated and starts selling more toys. And given how we don't see so much of the market, we really aren't apt to have any idea how successful Retaliation was in moving toys until the next Toy Fair. It also comes back to HOW MUCH GI Joe stuff Hasbro had to dump in 2009 and 2010 due to placing too much faith in the brand and overproducing product. And we aren't talking some close out stock like TJ Maxx has gotten of Transformers, EVERY discounter got significant volumes of GI Joe product, including homeless store exclusives. Hasbro likely took a bath on that, and I can't recall a single brand dumping SO MUCH like that. Blind faith is used up for GI Joe, now its got to EARN all the goodies fans want. Quote:
Correct me if i am wrong, but the 3 brands on that "top 10 list" that have the same customer base as G.I. joe...is Marvel, Star Wars, and Transformers.
The 1st two are owned by Disney The last, owned by G.I joe/Takara, is currently (not forever) enjoying the spoils from blockbuster Michael Bay movies. In the case of Transformers, the brand has done ENORMOUSLY well in reinventing itself over the years, and even while the live action films value have wanted, the brand is still more than 3 times what it was before said films. A good counterpoint would be Batman, which rode ENORMOUS success of the 89 film, its sequels, and two hit cartoon series for over a decade of solid to fantastic sales. Quote:
I think Hasbro has to answer the follwing question before they do anything:
Take a risk by investing in their own brands in a tougher market....or just be happy making alot of Marvel and SW toys for Disney. Just speculation, but What are your thoughts... To a large extent, the general "push" (kicked off by Transformers in 2007) has worked quite well (their revenues are a full billion MORE today than they were in 2006), but GI Joe just hasn't "clicked". So it is generally ALWAYS a good investment to invest in ones own brands, but with GI Joe, those investments and pushes just haven't seemed to pay off since 2007. GI Joe has a huge US following, but not really a strong international presence, which is where Hasbro projects the most growth in the future (North America is a "mature market" so there isn't much growth potential here) and many of the attempts to get the line to appeal to international consumers hasn't payed off (though I do think they dropped the ball in not trying to push Retaliation, especially in the Pacific regions like Korea and China) But remember that a "one market" product isn't necessarily a bad thing (the top selling Latin America toy for the last decade or so has been Max Steel, a brand that hasn't been in the US since the early 2000s. And Action Man has been pretty much a UK/Europe exclusive for a huge portion of its run as well) With GI Joe, with a big live action film and every bit (if not more) support than Transformers got in 2007 only pushed the brand to $90 million in revenue (in 2008, brand revenue was $30 million). Transformers was a $100 million brand BEFORE the movie. And at Hasbro, there are DOZENS of brands that have as much or more potential than Joe (Stretch Armstrong is still slated for a film within the next couple years, and Micronauts is still bubbling over there)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealDubya
Any sort of panic at this stage is just pure unsubstantiated reptile brain stem fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokePants
This is why companies are secretive -- because we all want the truth, but most of us cannot handle it.
|
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