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09-01-2010, 02:38 PM | #21 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 197
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Ok, Many of you have asked how i arrived at that number. I took a culmination of research that i did which included a number of factors including.
1. The size of armies for various nations worldwide that would be a formadable opponent to the US, 2. The size of Cobra Island in land mass Vs. The populations of real islands that exist - i took into account the terrain and possible military buildup. For intance, the inslands that i had researched varied greatly in their military size. Cuba for instance has 49,000 active military people. Now, Cuba is BY FAR larger than Cobra island, and i dont think that Cobra would have nearly as many people in their army. YES, i do realize that Cobra exists in installations throughout the world, however, i am going to cap the army at 50,000. YES, I know that this number does not include paramilitary people. Jamaica has 2800 active military. I'm sure CObra has more 3. Also took into account the what one could clearly see on TV. If you see 50 Hiss tanks lined up then you woudl have a BASE number that you cannot go under. 4. Also, i am assuming that Cobra has only 'Active military' except for certain parts of the Crimson Guard. NO, Chris didnt just say that they are ALL reservists. HE said that SOME are, as indicated on their file cards, that 'Who knows your neighbor may have a red suit hanging in his closet.' But back to what i was rambling about. I am assuming that there are no major counts of reservists in the Cobra Army. Im sure they are all looking to fight. 5. YES, i am aware that the support of non-figures must be part of the number HOWEVER, there are no 'support' troop figures that Hasbro made --- at least not in a 'trooper figure' capacity, so i can';t collect them as i am trying to put together a massive army. Also, i woudl be willing to bet that many of the blue shirt soldiers have to do a lot of these tasks. We see them carrying things, mopping floors etc in the TV show... so okay, you got me there... 6. I am not the be all end all of the size of Cobra, but we have held this discussion a numebr of times and i dont remember seeing any emperical proof of any possible counts... 7. Also took into the account the timeline of Cobra bases... Cobra Island, Springfield etc. 8. hopefully i get some time and i can post more on my thought process to get to teh exact numebrs that i did... because i really do want your guy's (and gal's) opinions on this. LOOSE CANNON, i think that you have given a PERFECT depiciton of what the army would entail. So i guess your number of fighters would hit roughly my 20,000 low end number (when we deduct for the size of the air force). Can anyone else break down a scenerio like Loose Cannon did? Would anyone disagree that we can max this out at 50,000 and if you feel it CAN be more, please give your assesment and give reasons WHY you feel this is hte case For those of you who feel as though the number is less than 20,000, can you please give me a number and tell me WHY you think this... Thanks for participating. Sorry about the typos... i cannot type as fast as some of you guys... Chris |
09-01-2010, 05:15 PM | #22 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Well do we assume that all the Cobra vehicles and troopers exist at the same time? Do they still use FANGs once they get FANG IIs? Do they use as many of the original Hiss Tanks as the did when they started out, and before they had developed all the other land armor like the Maggot and Paralyzer?
Instead of thinking along vehicle lines, perhaps it makes more sense to think along unit lines - let's say they have an artic warfare battalion based somewhere - it was probably equipped with Hiss tanks to begin with, and then those may have been phased out by the Wolf and then things like the Ice Sabre. Similarly, do they still use the 1st Gen BATs at all, after they've developed several newer versions of them? I'd guess that the unit sizes, proportions, etc would change and fluctuate depending on what areas Cobra is focusing its efforts. If we go by the ARAH comic and assume it happened in "real time", then the Cobra of 1983 might only have numbered a thousand or so, but by the time of the Cobra Civil War there seem to be several large units in play on Cobra Island alone. |
09-01-2010, 05:29 PM | #23 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 197
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@Stormgard...
Ok, i hear you. Good Point I would assume that they old units/uniforms are no longer used as they evlove. im sure that cobra would use an old hiss until it was dead in teh ground coz they really dont care about the poople... So that was one of my main concerns... are Viper uniforms just a blue shirt upgrade. I would say so, but im sure htey still used both uniforms at the same time/ I guess one thing that i should so is clarify my goal in knowing this, so that the question can be better answerd. I would like to create a 'complete' army (of what we all as collectors agree is the complete number). Dont worry i wont buy up all the good figures... the 2005 viper is just as good to me as the 1986... and most of you collect the 25th line anyway... so i am more proposing the question at the point AFTER the TD is opened on Cobra Island the 1986/1987 (at least in GIJOE time), height of Cobra. Just before the discoverance of Cobra La. So That pocket of time is what i would really like to know... I never definded the time, becuase i didnt want to preclude the HEAT/Night Vipers etc. but the pre-1988 line is most important to me. Hey, the way i see it is that if it wasnt defined in the Show or the Comic, then TANKERS (the most passionate and knowledgable JOE group), should have rights to decide based off their expertise. I know that its a side note, but if Habro, or Hama lossely tossed out a number, that number would be gospel. So, I'm self appointing the HISS tankers as the almost-almighty second in command source of decision on this topic!!... lol Let me know... Chris |
09-01-2010, 06:09 PM | #24 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Well I was just reading the TPB of the old comic, and here are a couple of notes on the Cobra forces on Cobra Island as of the time of the Cobra Island Civil War (I forget what year these comics came out, but it was some time in the mid 80s):
Cobra Commander's land forces are made up of Blueshirts, regular Vipers and Tele Vipers, plus WORMS crewmen. There seem to be more Blueshirts than Vipers. The forces guarding the Cobra Island airport (part of Cobra Commander's forces) are made up of three Maggots, three Mambas, maybe ten ASPs and what is estimated to be a "Company size" group of infantry. This is just the force guarding the airport, there are clearly larger forces of armor (and one assumes infantry) elsewhere. There are plenty of other vehicles in addition to these, including at least two dozen Maggots, plus some Imps. If I recall correctly a large force of a dozen or so Maggots make a failed attack on the Freighter and all or most of these can be assumed to be destroyed or badlay damaged. But there are enough Maggots left over (which must have not been involved in this first attack) to make up a large "column" that Zartan commands later on. Crimson Guardsmen and BATs plus a few Hiss tank and Stinger drivers make up Serpentor's land army. They are said to be outnumbered by Cobra Commander's forces by 5 to 1 (this figure may refer to troops and not vehicles). At one point Serpentor leads an armored attack of the "Hiss Squadron". (which appears to be his main armored strike force). This comprises of Hiss tanks and also Stinger jeeps. An armored squadron usually includes 12-20 vehicles as I recall. At one point there is a big air battle, and we see swarms of Fangs, Rattlers, and Mambas - at least a dozen of each. As far as armor goes, it looks to me as if Serpentor has about 2-3 dozen Hiss tanks and Stingers, and is up against a total of 3-5 dozen Maggots and Imps. As for infantry, Serpentor probably has less than a thousand men, perhaps as few as 500 (say 100 Siegies and 400 BATs). Cobra Commander has somewhere in the low-to mid four figures. Last edited by Stormgard; 09-01-2010 at 06:46 PM.. |
09-03-2010, 06:06 PM | #25 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,440
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Well this is of course fiction...
...Larry Hama made no distinction between blue shirts and Vipers. In my opinion Blue shirts are Vipers. Last edited by IronMan76; 09-03-2010 at 06:21 PM.. |
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