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06-08-2010, 03:26 AM | #21 |
The truth is liberating.
Join Date: May 2010
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Quote:
It would be impossible for the Joes to exist in the real world in exactly the same way they do in the comics and cartoons - the crazy costume-uniforms, the crazy vehicles (A Space Shuttle? Really?), etc.
However, the total roster for the Joe Team is just over 200 characters. That's almost the reported size of the Army's Intelligence Support Activity (Also Known As: Grey Fox, Centre Spike, The Secret Army of Northern Virginia, etc.) This model of a Tier 1 Special Operations Unit (like Delta, DevGru, and the ISA) that falls under the jurisdiction of US SOCOM seems the most plausible. However, considering that the roster of the Joe team is made up of members from all branches, and taking into account the fact that the Joes have to be able to operate within the boarders of the United States, it would seem that they would need to be organized outside of the normal military chain-of-command. Thank being said, the most logical place for a military unit like that would be to put it under the D.I.A. This allows the Defense Department to keep tabs on it, and to fill it's roster, but it frees it from the constraints and oversight of a normal military unit. As for how the unit is structured internally - I think Delta Force probably offers the best model for how a unit like that might work. However, given that the Joe Team also incorporates members from the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard - it's likely that the Delta Model would need to be modified to accomodate a smaller, more diversely qualified roster. Selection and Training for this Joe unit would be another matter altogether - again, the established Delta/SAS model of physical fitness, land navigation, and psychological evaluation are time tested and would probably provide a model that the Joe team could adapt as a base line and add to given their unique mission parameters. While I have great respect for the U.S. Marine Corps, it is organized for a much larger number of troops and a much different mission. If anything, the Royal Marines might come closer to the mark as a model for the Joes. They are far more like a Special Operations force than the entire USMC. Certainly the MSOBs of MARSOC are very impressive, but that is a small portion of the entire USMC. Delta/DevGRU/SAS/SBS/ISA/SRR are probably far better indications and examples of what a real Joe unit might be like. What he said.... Hey Oliverbox, I have to admit that you're way knowledgeable of military protocol, organization, and even leadership. But in just about every one of your posts, you drop DIA. I'm beginning to think that maybe you're partial to that organization for some reason... *puts pinky finger to mouth - hmmmmm*
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Code Name: One-Stop *IT1(SW/AW/FMF)* My B/S/T list. My Feedback Some of my written musings: Some G.I. Joe lore written by Dallas Martin |
06-08-2010, 03:33 AM | #22 |
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You're right Oliver. Also the way the individual troops manuevre and even move would have to be changed to form a single method of tactical approach.
A Joint Group like the Joes would probably have alot of teething problems in terms of rank / insignia recognition, different frequencies on radios and different ways of doing things. Would a USAF enlisted like (maybe) Barrel Roll know how to address a Warrant Officer like Flint? Given AF don't have Warrants anymore..etc |
06-08-2010, 03:35 AM | #23 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
^^^^
What he said.... Hey Oliverbox, I have to admit that you're way knowledgeable of military protocol, organization, and even leadership. But in just about every one of your posts, you drop DIA. I'm beginning to think that maybe you're partial to that organization for some reason... *puts pinky finger to mouth - hmmmmm* I live just outside Washington, D.C. and... well, I know people. ;) In all seriousness, I keep bringing D.I.A. up because I've thought about this question a lot and I've been reading a bit about the DIA's increased HUMINT capabilities because of Sec Def. Rumsfeld. Given that DIA comes under DOD, but isn't under the same constraints as the regular branches of the military - and they now have a Presidential license to operate in teams in the field like the CIA's Special Activities Division - it just seems like that would be the best way to fund, and fill the roster, and maintain military control over a Special Ops unit made up of all branches, and would need crazy funding, and might need to breakPosse Comitatus .
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 06-08-2010 at 03:55 AM.. |
06-08-2010, 03:44 AM | #24 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
You're right Oliver. Also the way the individual troops manuevre and even move would have to be changed to form a single method of tactical approach.
A Joint Group like the Joes would probably have alot of teething problems in terms of rank / insignia recognition, different frequencies on radios and different ways of doing things. Would a USAF enlisted like (maybe) Barrel Roll know how to address a Warrant Officer like Flint? Given AF don't have Warrants anymore..etc Eglin Air Force Base is a Prime Example. 7th Special Forces Group recently moved it's Base of Operations to Eglin - so an entire Special Forces Group, with all of it's support personnel, is now Headquartered at an Air Force Base - you can bet the Air Force enlisted guys have been briefed on how to address an Army warrant officer. As far as radio protocols go - the U.S. military solved that problem after Grenada. We all got onboard the "combined arms" team. We make sure that everybody can talk to everybody. For the Joes, it would be a necessity during their selection and training program to make sure everyone was proficient and current on the Joe Team's SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures). The Joe Team probably has it's own way of doing things... "Listen up, Leatherneck, Wet-Suit, Cutter, and Repeater... I don't care how you did things back at your old units, this is how we do things HERE." Even within the Army, units have their own SOPS for stuff like how they pack and carry their gear. I'm sure Delta has their own ways of doing things that's just a little different from DevGru - and both of those units are made up of guys pulled from different units.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 06-08-2010 at 04:04 AM.. |
06-08-2010, 03:51 AM | #25 |
The truth is liberating.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,422
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Quote:
Well, like you, I served. I'm an Army Chaplain in the Reserves, and I'm considering going back on Active Duty. I was at Ft. Bragg; I served as a Chaplain for 4th PsyOps Group in Special Operations Command. In civilian life, I'm a United Methodist Minister - no big surprize for a Chaplain.
I live just outside Washington, D.C. and... well, I know people. ;) Tyroc - With any special forces group, there's an indoctrination period. In modern day Joe-lore, we call it being a "greenshirt". This is the time where you're learning the protocols of the unit you're in. For SEALs it's called BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL). You've seen the pictures and whatnot... Ring the bell, yada-yada. But this is where "tadpoles" get their legs. A unit like the Joe team would be no different. They'd get indoctrinated in things like Chain of Command, protocol, and most importantly - where their skills are most beneficial to the team. As a Navy member who worked with Marines, I had to go through the first few weeks of Marine recruit training. This indoctrination taught me the ways of the USMC. I had to pass the same requirements and know as much as the basics as they did. This was to prepare me to work with a unit not necessarily the same design as my original.
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Code Name: One-Stop *IT1(SW/AW/FMF)* My B/S/T list. My Feedback Some of my written musings: Some G.I. Joe lore written by Dallas Martin |
06-08-2010, 03:59 AM | #26 |
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cool thanks for all the comments and thoughts
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06-08-2010, 04:00 AM | #27 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
That's awesome, man! Why do you wanna go back active? It's a crazy organization out there these days. I'm sure you know, though. Anyway, it's good chatting with you on the boards here!!!
Tyroc - With any special forces group, there's an indoctrination period. In modern day Joe-lore, we call it being a "greenshirt". This is the time where you're learning the protocols of the unit you're in. For SEALs it's called BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL). You've seen the pictures and whatnot... Ring the bell, yada-yada. But this is where "tadpoles" get their legs. A unit like the Joe team would be no different. They'd get indoctrinated in things like Chain of Command, protocol, and most importantly - where their skills are most beneficial to the team. As a Navy member who worked with Marines, I had to go through the first few weeks of Marine recruit training. This indoctrination taught me the ways of the USMC. I had to pass the same requirements and know as much as the basics as they did. This was to prepare me to work with a unit not necessarily the same design as my original. As for going back on Active Duty... yeah, it's a weird time to go back, but they need some Chaplains. I'm not going back immeadiately - I've got to loose some weight first - but as a Minister, I feel called to that type of ministry. Civilian Church is fine, but I miss the soldiers.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
06-08-2010, 04:12 AM | #28 |
The truth is liberating.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,422
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Quote:
That's awesome. Were you a Corpsman? I don't know all the specifics, but I know the Marines depend on the Navy for a lot of vital support roles like medics and transportation. I didn't realize the Naval personnel who worked with Marines had to go through part of Marine Basic... so were you already in the Navy and then had to go back to Marine Boot?
As for going back on Active Duty... yeah, it's a weird time to go back, but they need some Chaplains. I'm not going back immeadiately - I've got to loose some weight first - but as a Minister, I feel called to that type of ministry. Civilian Church is fine, but I miss the soldiers. The program is a bit different for guys coming into it from the fleet, but it's generally the same Marine Boot. Only difference was is that we had a few more liberties than the raw recruits and we were segregated. But believe me, a unit full of "wanna-be" Marines take a great amount of guff from Drill Gunny. In fact, I often wonder if they were harder on us just for being there. Anyway, it was hands-down the toughest thing I've ever done. Doing what I (used to) do... More pix are in my album...
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Code Name: One-Stop *IT1(SW/AW/FMF)* My B/S/T list. My Feedback Some of my written musings: Some G.I. Joe lore written by Dallas Martin Last edited by Sailor_Joe; 06-08-2010 at 04:20 AM.. |
06-08-2010, 07:53 AM | #29 |
We get insurance, right?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: At the Cobra, Cobracabana
Posts: 6,612
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Given what we've seen of Joe in IDW they run more like CIA. Traditional Joe is likely some sort of DoD joint branch venture. However, it's important to note that many times, despite rank, The Army fills the key leadership and NCO chain roles.
All that being said, hiding that much equipment, funding and personel would take the most badass of accountants. It's a cool fictional unit, but it could really never exist as a permanent one. Likely, it would be handled as some sort of loosely knit initiative with members like Hawk, Duke, and a few others being it's only "assigned" personel. The rest would simply be individuals that could be called upon due to their expertise.
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-13 Check out the Radio Springfield Playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4A...f628ec646946a4 |
06-08-2010, 08:00 AM | #30 |
Banned
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ive saved you all the trouble of furthering this discussion.
here is irl gijoe |
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