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03-20-2010, 09:07 PM | #21 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I think im being very specific with my concerns, too much energy spent teaching children to walk on eggshells, we're quickly headed toward a world where everybody has thin skin, no intestinal fortitude and feels entitled.
Take the PC crap for example, ARAH was, to my memory, the single most ethnically diverse cartoon on when I was a child. What passes for ethnically diverse in modern entertainment often amounts to little more than condescending platitudes. RoC movie is a perfect example of this, but not getting specific about the RoC movie is probably for the best. |
03-20-2010, 09:12 PM | #22 |
Iron Grenadier
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I can understand if a few things were edited out, like the USSR stuff which may not be PC now. In one of the episodes, Dusty calls a middle eastern man a Camel Jockey. That sort of surprised me. And Gung-Ho is very adamant about hating Russians, which is not PC.
But the old Looney Tunes had quite a bit of things that would be considered as modern-day racist things in them that I saw as a kid, but I think they've omitted them in recent airings. |
03-20-2010, 09:20 PM | #23 |
Hisstank.Com General
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I think im being very specific with my concerns, too much energy spent teaching children to walk on eggshells, we're quickly headed toward a world where everybody has thin skin, no intestinal fortitude and feels entitled.
Take the PC crap for example, ARAH was, to my memory, the single most ethnically diverse cartoon on when I was a child. What passes for ethnically diverse in modern entertainment often amounts to little more than condescending platitudes. RoC movie is a perfect example of this, but not getting specific about the RoC movie is probably for the best. As for the PC stuff, I agree it gets to be a bit too much... but kids have been being over nannied and works for them censored for over 100 years. "No L Frank Baum book shall ever cause a child to have a nightmare" was Reilly and Lee's slogan 100 years ago when L Frank Baum was writing the Land of Oz books. Duke's Death was censored in the 1985 GI Joe movie, cause it was too disturbing for Kids... There's an animated Titanic movie which promises on the packaging that everyone is rescued. This is nothing new... There are cartoons out there that do deal with tougher and more sensitive subjects, even today. There are cartoons that treat their characters as more then token minorities even today. And there are ones that deal with the subject of warfare a lot more realistically then the Sunbow GI Joe did. I'm not saying that Sunbow shouldn't be shown or that there arn't kids out there today who won't enjoy it. And I agree that PC-ism can be taken way too far.
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03-20-2010, 09:32 PM | #24 |
Iron Grenadier
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Now I was specifically talking about in terms of effort... I think in many times the effort is greater then some of the writers in the 80s or the 70s who were just doing it for a paycheck (I realize that wasn't all of them but there's enough who have admitted to it; I also realize there's writers doing the same thing today). I mean now a days we've got the Bruce Timms and Paul Dinis out there who put a tremendous amount of thought into their cartoons.
As for the PC stuff, I agree it gets to be a bit too much... but kids have been being over nannied and works for them censored for over 100 years. "No L Frank Baum book shall ever cause a child to have a nightmare" was Reilly and Lee's slogan 100 years ago when L Frank Baum was writing the Land of Oz books. Duke's Death was censored in the 1985 GI Joe movie, cause it was too disturbing for Kids... There's an animated Titanic movie which promises on the packaging that everyone is rescued. This is nothing new... There are cartoons out there that do deal with tougher and more sensitive subjects, even today. There are cartoons that treat their characters as more then token minorities even today. And there are ones that deal with the subject of warfare a lot more realistically then the Sunbow GI Joe did. I'm not saying that Sunbow shouldn't be shown or that there arn't kids out there today who won't enjoy it. And I agree that PC-ism can be taken way too far. It just seems to me like the opposite is true today, its not really about the children. Hasbro makes toys marked ages 4+ linked to a movie that shows a lot of carnage, like a mans head disintegrating before your very eyes lol, then there are the previously mentioned PC condescending platitudes so its like they changed everything that was good about sunbow in the RoC line. I of course dont consider making a cartoon so a five year old doesnt have nightmares of burning to death in a cockpit the same thing as walking on eggshells, theyll learn about life and death soon enough. Strangely it's like now we'll coddle the adults and to hell with the children, lol. I mean that's the impression I get from RoC. |
03-20-2010, 09:44 PM | #25 |
Hisstank.Com General
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It just seems to me like the opposite is true today, its not really about the children. Hasbro makes toys marked ages 4+ linked to a movie that shows a lot of carnage, like a mans head disintegrating before your very eyes lol, then there are the previously mentioned PC condescending platitudes so its like they changed everything that was good about sunbow in the RoC line.
I of course dont consider making a cartoon so a five year old doesnt have nightmares of burning to death in a cockpit the same thing as walking on eggshells, theyll learn about life and death soon enough. Strangely it's like now we'll coddle the adults and to hell with the children, lol. I mean that's the impression I get from RoC. See you can strike a balance though... look at Disney's Gargoyles. Okay aimed for a slightly older crowd (like maybe 12 or so), but it did have characters dying occasionally and it did show the consequences of violence without being super gory or grotesque... There's an episode where Elisa gets accidentally shot with her own gun for example, teaching kids a lesson about not playing with firearms. Another more recent example is Avatar (the Nick cartoon not the movie)... which deals with War in a more realistic setting (for a show about people who control the elements that is). And at the end the main character struggles with whether to take the expedient root and kill the main villain as everyone expects him too (even his own past lives), and in the end chooses to do the more difficult thing. Both these cartoons also dealt with Racial issues in their own way (that wasn't necessarily too PC), as of course did the X-men cartoon by ways of parable. As for Resolute... I honestly don't like it because it interjects Warren Ellis' moral relativism in a place where it's really not needed. I don't need a Roadblock who laughs his head off like a psychopath as he guns down enemy soldiers from behind. Or the villains who are too dark for darkness sake... Cobra Commander beheading a trooper because a certain computer process is impossible, Zartan "only need[ing] the killing" and Storm Shadow, having his uncle murdered out of jealously. I'd like a cartoon that bridged the difference... had a bit of a harder edge like Resolute but had characters who were a bit more identifiable and down to earth then Sunbow... in short a cartoon that was like the comic.
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03-20-2010, 09:47 PM | #26 |
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It isn't dated, in fact it is better quality then most of the current stuff released, aside from the few new action type toons, like avatar.
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03-20-2010, 09:58 PM | #27 |
Iron Grenadier
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As for Resolute... I honestly don't like it because it interjects Warren Ellis' moral relativism in a place where it's really not needed. I don't need a Roadblock who laughs his head off like a psychopath as he guns down enemy soldiers from behind. Or the villains who are too dark for darkness sake... Cobra Commander beheading a trooper because a certain computer process is impossible, Zartan "only need[ing] the killing" and Storm Shadow, having his uncle murdered out of jealously.
I'd like a cartoon that bridged the difference... had a bit of a harder edge like Resolute but had characters who were a bit more identifiable and down to earth then Sunbow... in short a cartoon that was like the comic. totally agree with the comic comment from what little I know of them, and I think a lot of people consider resolute to be just that, a cartoon more faithful to the comic, or at least one with a comic book feel in terms of '''graphicness'''. Ive only now begun reading the comics so I cannot really give my own opinion on this. |
03-20-2010, 10:05 PM | #28 |
Hisstank.Com General
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Some of it was over the top to me, I never saw roadblock as the psychopath type for example, I probably got the idea from sunbow that he was a good guy of good guys. But even from sunbow I got the impression cobra commander was a ruthless psychopath, and it seemed totally in character to me that he would execute a subordinate on a whim.
totally agree with the comic comment from what little I know of them, and I think a lot of people consider resolute to be just that, a cartoon more faithful to the comic, or at least one with a comic book feel in terms of '''graphicness'''. Ive only now begun reading the comics so I cannot really give my own opinion on this. There is something Larry Hama said on his face book about Resolute: "I tried reading one of the scripts. It didn't seem like it had been written by anybody who was familiar with the characters, or who knew anything about the military or weapons. I was offended by its lack of moral center." and on that I agree... Roadblock seemed like a psychopath in Resolute to me... And I agree the Cobra villains should be ruthless but I think Resolute took it too far just so it could be graphic. I actually prefer RoC to Resolute. And I hope I'll find the new Joe Cartoon to be more entertaining then either.
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03-21-2010, 01:32 AM | #29 |
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Resolute to me, was a great update to the orignal cartoon
ROC was a different thing altogether. Not a bad movie, but did not need the GI Joe name. They could have left the familiar character names and the GI Joe and Cobra names out, and it would be a good movie on it's own with original characters and a modern/futuristic plot dealing with crazy terrorists. Basically ROC on it's own good, GI Joe related....uh.. only by name to me. Sigma 6, Sgt. Savage and Extreme.....can we just forget them? lol
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03-21-2010, 02:10 AM | #30 |
Bouncing Around the Room
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And young kids aren't audio video critics, either its true that hasbro's first concern is the children or it isnt true. hindsight is always 20/20 so old dialogue will always seem corny to adults. Corny in this regard is often interchangeable with words like wholesome.
Besides I wasnt referring to physical aesthetics, hasbro could remake ARAH with modern technology but also keep the emphasis on good character, I just want them to honor the roots of the their success, the things that made me fall in love with it as a kid I knew the values they promoted were right, even when I was a kid there were strange and stupid cartoons that were chaotic and offered no real guidance. I think most modern stuff is setting our kids up for failure down the road. ARAH endorsed the idea among other things that we arent entitled and hard work and determination is what it takes to be the best or be successful. Now most animated series DO have a better sound and have increased the frame rate. Kids notice it. As much as people like to wax on nostalgia, the old GI Joe cartoons ARE dated. They do NOT hold up from a critical standpoint and kids DO notice. You can blame this lost of innocence on anything from the video game generation to over exposure to the internet and various other media. You can try and place the blame on whomever you want but the average 10 -12 year old is far more savvy than most parents want to admit. They notice. |
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