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03-20-2010, 03:24 PM | #21 |
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Flash wasn't a SGT in 82 when is filecard listed him as an E-4. He must have been promoted.
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03-20-2010, 03:29 PM | #22 |
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Quote:
I went to basic with a guy who got in at E4. (Actually OSUT if you're familiar) I think he got the rank because he had an associates degree in Law Enforcement (I was an MP, designation 95B at the time, although I think it has changed to 11C since) so at least in 1995 it was possible. I'm not sure if it may have changed since then.
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03-20-2010, 03:46 PM | #23 |
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Quote:
I would welcome anyone to correct me, but I think you may have a misconception about military rank, Snyder. I'll try to explain, but since I may not be 100% correct (especially in regard to other branches) please take the following as admittedly uncertain. So, the ranks go as such: E-1 to E-4: Plain soldiers. PFCs will act better than PV2s, there is your 'E4 Mafia' in some circles, but ultimately they are the worker bees - they carry out details, go through frequent training and are essentially the bottom of the barrel. Now, E-4s are Specialists. One rank prior to E-5 (Sgt) but unlike the other ranks, Sergeant is NOT handed out to you if you stay in long enough and don't get in trouble. It's the first thing in the Army you really have to work for and prove to someone (a board of superior enlisted) that you deserve. Corporal on the other hand is just an E-4 Specialist with a special form documenting that - within their COMPANY - they are a Corporal. As in if this soldier is suddenly transfered to another company, they lose this rank. It is typically a sign that this particular soldier shows promise or leadership abilities above his peers, and may deserve a promotion to Sgt. However, all E-4 Specialists have the same opportunity to become E-5s without being Corporals. Being a Corporal just SHOWS people that someone thought you were worthy, and if said superior has you pegged for a leader, they will often do this just to make you look good at the promotion board. There is no middle ground between the ranks, though. E-4s are Specialists with the occasional Corporal. E-5's are Sergeants. There are no E-4 Sgts or anything like that (Though MANY E-4's will try to convince you they're as good or better than their bosses ;-) ) As for grades, yes - technically, a Sgt with more time as a Sgt is SUPPOSED to be regarded as a superior to a Sgt with less time. is this always the case? No. In my experience, I've seen newly promoted E5's take over for senior E5s, typically because the command element felt he (the senior) was ineffective, stupid, out of his depth or otherwise incompatible with the expectations of his postion. Like many things in the Army, it is hard to distinguish what is tradition, formality, or regulation. NCO's will often cite ridiculous regulations just to get their way, or excuse harsh hazing as 'tradition'. Air assault blood wings, for example. But from what I could tell, many junior E5s stifled themselves when a senior E5 told them to do something - unless the senior E5 was so ate up that even the command structure wouldn't back him up if someone blew him off (Rare, but happens) So... If Flash has been a Sgt longer than Bazooka, can he order him around? Yes. Tom
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Please stop talking. The amount of insider information that you have is exactly zero.
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03-20-2010, 04:01 PM | #24 |
Eternal F'n Toys R Us Kid
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Thanks people!
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03-20-2010, 06:24 PM | #25 |
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If both are E-5s the person with the higher "command" will depend on the person's position within the unit. An E-5 squad leader is higher than an E-5 who is not.
I've seen E-5s who were not fit to lead be in a squad led by an E-4 Corporal. I rarely saw any pissing match between two "equal" E-5s in the units I was assigned. And if someone pulled the "I have more time in grade", the leadership and command in the unit would usually put these guys in their place and tell them exactly why the other E-5 can order him around. |
03-20-2010, 06:57 PM | #26 |
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Quote:
If both are E-5s the person with the higher "command" will depend on the person's position within the unit. An E-5 squad leader is higher than an E-5 who is not.
I've seen E-5s who were not fit to lead be in a squad led by an E-4 Corporal. I rarely saw any pissing match between two "equal" E-5s in the units I was assigned. And if someone pulled the "I have more time in grade", the leadership and command in the unit would usually put these guys in their place and tell them exactly why the other E-5 can order him around. Good call, Maz! : ) Tom
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G.I. Joe fans are the kind of people who demand a steak dinner but will only pay for macaroni and cheese. Quote:
Please stop talking. The amount of insider information that you have is exactly zero.
Know how I know this? Because you posted a declassified flyer which was meant for fun as a NEWS ITEM. No one would ever tell you anything because the VERY FIRST THING you would do is post it here. Probably incorrectly. |
03-20-2010, 07:22 PM | #27 |
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While I agree with most of your assessments Tom, I kind of take offense to lower enlisted being called "bottom of the barrell". There are plenty of crap NCO's and Officers in the service, and plenty of fine lower enlisted soldiers. Most of my NCO chain was completely clueless. I had to train them when they got to our unit. Most were pencil pushing desk jockeys who knew how to play the game, and by that I know you know the type I mean.
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03-20-2010, 07:23 PM | #28 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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The filecards have a lot of mistakes. Particularly when they started calling guys Sgt____, but his filcard shows corporal. ROC Flash and Convention Flash are both E-5 Sgts. There is no such thing as an E-4 SGt in the Army or Marines or Air Force
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03-20-2010, 07:39 PM | #29 |
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I agree with what was said about all NCO's not being the same. It is important to look at time in grade when evlauating the importance of a member of the armed forces. Not only that but your job and position also determine if you are an important E-5 or a run of the mill sergant. An example would be the Humvee driver of the brigade commander would have the big man's ear and what he want goes so he gets power through association. A special forces E-5 is given the respect of others due to his accomplishments. An E-5 that has been in the sevice for 18 years and is in charge of the squad that cleans latrines gets treated accordingly.
On top of that you get the medal of honor or other such commindation whatever rank you are, you get the respect of all. I was E-4, AIrborne Infantry, 82nd Airborne. |
03-20-2010, 07:42 PM | #30 |
Hisstank.Com General
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In Naval Avaition it kind of breaks down this way...
E1-E3: Do the Cleaning, receive training, assist the E4's E-4: Technical expert, this is the guy doing the day to day electronic troubleshooting in our labs... helps with cleaning, receives training, may sometimes be asked to provide training, but rarely. Never put in charge of any serious 'programs' (Tool Control, Safety, etc) E5: Subject Matter Experts, Production Supervisors, work area leaders, inside work area quality assurance inspectors, often give the training to the junior troops, and can manage more difficult programs like tool control, expensive equipment inventory, etc. But not Safety. E6: Leading Petty Officer (senior person in the work area) all other E6 (other E-6's might be a shift supervisor, but basically if you aren't an LPO you aren't 'all you can be' as viewed by senior evaluators on your annual evaluation) and below in the work center/branch/division/department based on the persons postion as LPO is expected to do what they are told. (A dept LPO is higher than a Division LPO and so on) This guy manages and is ultimately held responsible for everything that occurs within this area. if anyone with in his area of responsiblity screws up on the job or out in town, its the LPO that really gets hammered over the long haul. E7: Admin supervisor of either a workcenter or group of work centers, he does the majority of the interfacing with senior personnel and takes that information back to the LPO, who passes it down the line. E8: Division Leading Chief Petty Officer, backs up his Divisional Officer who is usually an 01-03. Spends a lot of time teaching him the ins and outs of the business, relys heavy on CPO's and LPO's to get the job done, because he can't be everywhere at once. A Division can be as small as 40 or as big as 800 people depending on the size of the command. E9: Department Leading Chief Petty Officer: A Department can be any where from 2-6 Divisions, I've seen them as big as 1800 people. Depends primarly on Division LCPO's to back him up, Assists the Assistant Department Head (O-4) and the Department Head (0-5) in adminsitration and management of the department. Senior most enlisted, acts as liasion to senior officers in regards to his people. E9: Command Master Chief, works the same as the DLCPO but is at the Command level, any number of Departments can make up a command... Commands typically have O-5 or O-6 as the commanding officer. some commands are small enough that instead of CO's they have OIC's Officers in Charge... alot of times this is a place that is too big to be a department, to small to be its own command. Still E9: Then you have Fleet Master Chief, Force Master Chief and somewhere along the way finally Master Cheif Petty Officer of the Navy. All of their job titles are the same as DLCPO, it's just that now they are in charge of a larger area comprised of a bunch of whatever is next smallest down! Except for MCPON, he of course is the senior most enlisted in the entire Navy and works directly for the Chief of Naval Operations (senior most Officer) Last edited by Night Viper 143; 03-20-2010 at 07:46 PM.. |
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