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05-25-2022, 05:45 AM | #61 |
Dark Lord of the Mods
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,298
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Quote:
Hell, in the comics, she punched him out in one instance and held a gun to his head in another! Last edited by DarkLordMordred; 05-25-2022 at 09:06 AM.. |
05-25-2022, 06:27 AM | #62 |
GI Joe Graffiti General
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Mindbenders Laboratory
Posts: 6,557
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Exactly. Stalker still gets my
Vote for the Joe team lead over Duke. Lore placed him there first. As for the chicks, outside of that convention run freestyle figure, lady Jaye , Scarlett or cover girl .
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vvvvSlices Customsvvvv 1/18 scale : http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...s-customs.html 1/12 scale https://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-j...d-customs.html 1st place Winner in The Joes Customs contest http://www.joecustoms.com/forums/vie...p?f=24&t=48010 true art speaks for itself. Last edited by SlicesCustoms; 05-25-2022 at 06:31 AM.. |
05-25-2022, 08:52 AM | #63 |
left 2024-01-19
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Away
Posts: 6,719
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Quote:
They were quite the pair. Last edited by TheOverlordCorp; 07-09-2023 at 04:45 PM.. |
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05-25-2022, 10:58 AM | #64 |
We get insurance, right?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: At the Cobra, Cobracabana
Posts: 6,612
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That's why I wondered why a few people were upset when they made her a latina in Renegades. I was like...yeah, that tracks.
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05-25-2022, 07:04 PM | #65 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: RI
Posts: 230
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Quote:
The ninja thing is a money grab insofar as the 1980s, the ninjas were all the rage.... Completely and utterly ridiculous on literally every level.... It basically ruined the Joes. Even the poll about do you prefer Snake Eyes as a Commando or Ninja reflects this.... But, yeah, ranks are on the file cards and those are the canon source.... Especially considering most of the writers don't have the foggiest idea about military rank structure aside from Hama and Tom Waltz who were both in the military.... |
05-25-2022, 09:03 PM | #66 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Duke's now a captain, thanks to "Rise of Cobra." LoL!
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05-25-2022, 10:46 PM | #67 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,038
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This is dissertation level discussion. My thoughts based on 28 years in US Army Uniform, retiring as an O-6 / Colonel.
1. We have no formal canon from Hasbro that holds the licensing rights to GI Joe. So Marvel's ARAH, through the Sunbow cartoon and DIC cartoon to the modern movie series all differ greatly. Blame Hasbro for not telling us what is fake like Disney did with their Star Wars conflicting background material. 2. Hama stated at some point over the last 30 years that when we wrote the file cards, he tried to give personalities appropriate rank and grade. As stated earlier grade equals to a pay scale combined with time in service. Rank is often parallel but when Hama wrote GI Joe in the early 80's the rank structure differed greatly for enlisted than now. Recall we had SPC-4, SPC-5, SPC-6 which were also CPL, SGT, SSG, etc... in the 80's. Today we still have Soldiers paid as E-4 but some are Corporals and others are Specialists. Corporals are expected to have responsibilities for others' lives and a Specialist will differ to a CPL when a decision is made. A Specialist could be in charge but likely should have been laterally promoted to CPL and wear those hard stripes. 3. In ARAH #1 on the first page Hama refers to GI Joe as America's Delta Force. Delta is known to be a unit where pay grade and rank do not necessarily equal being the senior on a mission. Hollywood gets this right in many different shows and movies like in CBS SEAL Team where a senior SEAL NCO (I call him Booth still) will give direction to the less experience team leader who is a Navy O3 or O4. ARAH follows this method throughout the series when a small team is lead by someone with environmental expertise to vast experience even though higher ranking/paid grade team members are assigned to the mission. This has happened in real life over the years too.Look at the Korean War's Task Force Smith where a Navy O-6 is assigned to a unit commanded by an Army O-5 because the O-6 is in a supporting role only. 4. Don't confuse clearance and access with rank and authority. Clearance has to do with having the need to know and approved access. A temporary TS-SCI facility may be assigned to a low ranking officer with his or her Soldiers working in it but the officer may not have approved access. It's not abnormal. Someone higher up the chain of command will ensure the T-SCIF is doing what it should. The DoD is good at compartmentalizing information and making sure only those that need to know it for their job have access. As an Infantry PLt Leader, I did not need to know where the intelligence was derived from but only what I needed to know to accomplish my assigned mission / tasks. Nor confuse authority - Someones son or daughter may be a flight engineer and can recommend that an aircraft should not be flown but the commander of that aircraft gets paid to make a decision while weighing risk. Situation may require it to fly or everyone dies even though it is deemed not safe to fly. 5. Company, grade, field grade, general officer, staff, line officers. Don't get wrapped up in it in the Joe world. I only imagine that GI Joe has a bunch of nameless staff personnel supporting them but do we really care to have a comic focused on an HR specialist completing some promotion packets or a finance soldier processing a pay inquiry or a signaller reinstalling the option files on a SATCOM terminal? Boring! I would rather have the finance guy be a tunnel rat and the signaller carry a cool radio/te/etype pack in the arctic. 6. The chain of command for GI Joe changed and morphed over the years of the comic. As stated earlier, in early issues Hawk was the ground force commander then was promoted and put behind the desk (we call it fighting up and out) Duke was made the field commander based on years of SPECOPS experience and being a senior NCO. As for the Flint dilemma, writers just royally screwed him up. First file card said he was an E-6 but also a Warrant Officer based on flight school. How many times did he pilot in the comics? LJ got more stick time with in the Skystriker than Flint got in the Dragonfly or Tomahawk. I see Flint is the Army Special Forces Warrant Officer that is likely second in command of an Operational Detachment but rarely in the command role even in split team ops. Don't forget the comic went on for years and the Joes were getting promoted but the file card writers may not have been keeping up. Fun fact, the average rank of the lowest green beret on a team was SSG for years yet GI Joe has members that are enternal E-4s. 7. Finally, the OP asked a very simple question but failed to include which "non-canon" media was to be used as the reference. If in ARAH by Marvel, Carla Greer is an O-3, as a medical professional, she is the highest rank - O-3 is higher ranking than Scarlett no matter how many stripes Scarlett wears on her sleeve but Scarlett may be assigned as the team leader for a mission where a doctor is required to take part in. The Doc is not going to tell that NCO how to do the mission if not a medical based mission like "operate a day clinic in random village in foreign land to allow intelligence operatives to collect intelligence from those that show up at the clinic for medical assistance".
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Feedback: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/buy-se...ck-thread.html Trade List(s): http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...rade-list.html http://www.hisstank.com/forum/kre-o-...ml#post4624432 Last edited by cardensb; 05-25-2022 at 10:51 PM.. |
05-25-2022, 11:20 PM | #68 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 325
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Quote:
This is dissertation level discussion. My thoughts based on 28 years in US Army Uniform, retiring as an O-6 / Colonel.
1. We have no formal canon from Hasbro that holds the licensing rights to GI Joe. So Marvel's ARAH, through the Sunbow cartoon and DIC cartoon to the modern movie series all differ greatly. Blame Hasbro for not telling us what is fake like Disney did with their Star Wars conflicting background material. 2. Hama stated at some point over the last 30 years that when we wrote the file cards, he tried to give personalities appropriate rank and grade. As stated earlier grade equals to a pay scale combined with time in service. Rank is often parallel but when Hama wrote GI Joe in the early 80's the rank structure differed greatly for enlisted than now. Recall we had SPC-4, SPC-5, SPC-6 which were also CPL, SGT, SSG, etc... in the 80's. Today we still have Soldiers paid as E-4 but some are Corporals and others are Specialists. Corporals are expected to have responsibilities for others' lives and a Specialist will differ to a CPL when a decision is made. A Specialist could be in charge but likely should have been laterally promoted to CPL and wear those hard stripes. 3. In ARAH #1 on the first page Hama refers to GI Joe as America's Delta Force. Delta is known to be a unit where pay grade and rank do not necessarily equal being the senior on a mission. Hollywood gets this right in many different shows and movies like in CBS SEAL Team where a senior SEAL NCO (I call him Booth still) will give direction to the less experience team leader who is a Navy O3 or O4. ARAH follows this method throughout the series when a small team is lead by someone with environmental expertise to vast experience even though higher ranking/paid grade team members are assigned to the mission. This has happened in real life over the years too.Look at the Korean War's Task Force Smith where a Navy O-6 is assigned to a unit commanded by an Army O-5 because the O-6 is in a supporting role only. 4. Don't confuse clearance and access with rank and authority. Clearance has to do with having the need to know and approved access. A temporary TS-SCI facility may be assigned to a low ranking officer with his or her Soldiers working in it but the officer may not have approved access. It's not abnormal. Someone higher up the chain of command will ensure the T-SCIF is doing what it should. The DoD is good at compartmentalizing information and making sure only those that need to know it for their job have access. As an Infantry PLt Leader, I did not need to know where the intelligence was derived from but only what I needed to know to accomplish my assigned mission / tasks. Nor confuse authority - Someones son or daughter may be a flight engineer and can recommend that an aircraft should not be flown but the commander of that aircraft gets paid to make a decision while weighing risk. Situation may require it to fly or everyone dies even though it is deemed not safe to fly. 5. Company, grade, field grade, general officer, staff, line officers. Don't get wrapped up in it in the Joe world. I only imagine that GI Joe has a bunch of nameless staff personnel supporting them but do we really care to have a comic focused on an HR specialist completing some promotion packets or a finance soldier processing a pay inquiry or a signaller reinstalling the option files on a SATCOM terminal? Boring! I would rather have the finance guy be a tunnel rat and the signaller carry a cool radio/te/etype pack in the arctic. 6. The chain of command for GI Joe changed and morphed over the years of the comic. As stated earlier, in early issues Hawk was the ground force commander then was promoted and put behind the desk (we call it fighting up and out) Duke was made the field commander based on years of SPECOPS experience and being a senior NCO. As for the Flint dilemma, writers just royally screwed him up. First file card said he was an E-6 but also a Warrant Officer based on flight school. How many times did he pilot in the comics? LJ got more stick time with in the Skystriker than Flint got in the Dragonfly or Tomahawk. I see Flint is the Army Special Forces Warrant Officer that is likely second in command of an Operational Detachment but rarely in the command role even in split team ops. Don't forget the comic went on for years and the Joes were getting promoted but the file card writers may not have been keeping up. Fun fact, the average rank of the lowest green beret on a team was SSG for years yet GI Joe has members that are enternal E-4s. 7. Finally, the OP asked a very simple question but failed to include which "non-canon" media was to be used as the reference. If in ARAH by Marvel, Carla Greer is an O-3, as a medical professional, she is the highest rank - O-3 is higher ranking than Scarlett no matter how many stripes Scarlett wears on her sleeve but Scarlett may be assigned as the team leader for a mission where a doctor is required to take part in. The Doc is not going to tell that NCO how to do the mission if not a medical based mission like "operate a day clinic in random village in foreign land to allow intelligence operatives to collect intelligence from those that show up at the clinic for medical assistance". |
05-26-2022, 05:14 AM | #69 |
Dark Lord of the Mods
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,298
|
Quote:
7. Finally, the OP asked a very simple question but failed to include which "non-canon" media was to be used as the reference. If in ARAH by Marvel, Carla Greer is an O-3, as a medical professional, she is the highest rank - O-3 is higher ranking than Scarlett no matter how many stripes Scarlett wears on her sleeve but Scarlett may be assigned as the team leader for a mission where a doctor is required to take part in. The Doc is not going to tell that NCO how to do the mission if not a medical based mission like "operate a day clinic in random village in foreign land to allow intelligence operatives to collect intelligence from those that show up at the clinic for medical assistance".
The Hasbro website also seems to have done away with the standard military ranking system and replaced it with a specialization ranking system (as we see on the sides of the Classified boxes). But I agree that the OP didn't make it specific which part of the G.I. Joe brand he considered to be canon for the purpose of his question and if he's taking ALL of it into consideration, than Scarlett being an O-6 in the IDW comics would put her at a higher rank than Carla Greer or Freestyle, who are both O-3. |
05-26-2022, 08:42 AM | #70 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: indianapolis
Posts: 105
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Quote:
if you don't go through OCS (or get a battlefield promotion and since the G.I. Joe team is classified, battlefield promotions aren't a thing, as that would require people without the need to know knowing that the mission where the promotion occurred actually took place), then you can never become an officer, no matter how long you serve or how well you perform your duties. Also, in regard to battlefield promotions, the US discontinued the practice after Vietnam and only reinstated it in 2009
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