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01-29-2024, 01:55 PM | #1 |
Ne Plus Ulta
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 4,744
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I was listening to the What's On JOE Mind? archives on Podbean. In Episode #98, (air date December 20, 2014,) Gary, Mike, Justin, and Chuck had a rather spirited discussion on 6" JOEs. Chuck was all for there being a 6" JOE while surprisingly Mike, Justin, and Gary didn't support the idea of a 6" JOE line because they thought a 6" JOE line would brick for the following reasons
1) G.I. JOE is a vehicle line. Vehicles for 1:12 scale figures are far and few between and you can't have a JOE line without vehicles. 2) The JOE fandom is too small to support 6" inch JOE. Gary's rationale was that after three, (maybe four,) waves of core characters interest in a 6" line would die out. 3) The JOE fandom is notoriously cheap and they aren't willing to spend on 1:12 JOE figures. What's interesting and fascinating about this debate is that (unlike Uncle Tim, Viper Island and Cotton Kendra,) who'll just spew random bullshit without supporting facts or the proper frame of reference, Justin, Gary, and Mike are members in good standing in the JOE community with (I daresay,) an intermediate, (if not advanced,) knowledge of what JOE fandom wants and why it would or wouldn't work. However, when it came to what eventually be known as the G I JOE Classified Series, they were wrong on all fronts and it was Chuck, (who is admittedly a Transformers guy,) who was proven to be right. I was out of collecting at the time and what I need from you guys is to provide proper the context in which why the fandom thought 6" inch JOE would fail. This isn't the first time I heard this either. On his podcast when Classified was announced Angry Mike and John didn't a 6" JOE would do well either. Does the fact that these statements were made during "the dark days of G.I. JOE," when Hasbro had that bullshit 50th Anniversary offering and the fandom legitimately wondered did Hasbro even have a plan regarding the future of G.I. JOE play a part in why Gary, Mike, and Justin thought a 6" JOE, would fail? Like said, it's a real interesting conversation considering how successful the Classified Series is. The 6" figure discussion starts at 2:04:13 - 2:26:58 Gary's comment @ 2:12:02 - 2:12:24 about Hasbro wouldn't do a 1:12 scale H.I.S.S. and if they did it wouldn't sell, man that shit didn't age well at all. LOL. I'm listening to WOJM: What's On Joe Mind? | WOJM Episode 98 on Podbean, check it out! https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-ht4xr-52b744
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Last edited by Fred Broca; 01-30-2024 at 10:33 AM.. |
01-29-2024, 02:56 PM | #2 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Posts: 1,785
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Based on what those guys saw happening at retail, I can?t blame them, and I even think it may have been Hasbro?s intention to temporarily dampen enthusiasm for their current offerings (more just a little), fooling everyone. Hear me out?I wouldn?t be surprised if even a few year?s before that time in 2014, Hasbro execs had already tossed around the idea of 6? Joes as well as getting into the business of licensing 4?. They had payed licensing fees for the Star Wars stuff long enough for any exec to realize they were on the wrong side of licensing with the action figure business. I am guessing that during the paramount movie era there was waning enthusiasm for having so little control over the line, as movie schedules often ruined the rollout of product. All the while they were already dreaming up bigger and better offerings, all the while starting to skimp on the 1:18 product. Paint applications and articulation suffered during Retaliation most likely because their big ideas for the line had already taken the long view. I don?t have any evidence, but it would explain why they strung collectors along with half-baked offerings like the 50th line and later the 1:18 retro line just to keep 1:18 fans? toes in the water. They knew they could do better than what they were doing, but we?re saving up. Why make awesome toys without making awesome profits on them, so they skimped and cut costs on four inch, leading to a perception that a bigger line might not sell if the smaller one wouldn?t. They knew that the biggest competitor to awesome 6? Joes would always be 4? Joes, so skimping on 4? made 6? Joes shine by comparison. Meanwhile all the fans complained the market was too small, and perceived that nothing would ever really work.
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01-29-2024, 03:31 PM | #3 |
Cobra Sith Lord
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Surf City, CA
Posts: 9,596
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Quote:
Mike, Justin, and Gary didn't support the idea of a 6" JOE line because they thought a 6" JOE line would brick for the following reasons
1) G.I. JOE is a vehicle line. Vehicles for 1:12 scale figures are far and few between and you can't have a JOE line without vehicles.
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01-29-2024, 03:45 PM | #4 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,345
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I was a naysayer to 6" JOEs before Classified arrived. I disliked the idea but the first wave of Classified figures completely changed my mind. I'm not sure what I was afraid of. I just loved o-ring and nothing that came after it so I guess I assumed 6" figures would look bad in some way.
Quote:
I know I am absolutely in the minority on this take and it's blasphemous to even suggest it lol but I was never big on vehicles as a kid, even less so as an adult, and the figures were always the sole reason I collected G.I. Joe. The only toy line that I ever actually actively loved the vehicles in was M.A.S.K., and that was largely in part because they were in a much smaller scale.
Even now with Classified, I think the vehicles look great but I can't help but shudder at how much space they occupy and it makes me nervous about more vehicles coming because I know I will want them as part of my Classified collection but I am seriously running out of space in my house.
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01-29-2024, 05:06 PM | #5 |
Wants to try Yo-Jo cola
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sao Paulo, BRAZIL
Posts: 444
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I don't like classified. I just got Tiger Force Outback because it was in a good price and I wanted to check at least one figure out, but to buy all those characters AGAIN is absurd to me. I actually did it with the 25th line, and I profoundly regret it - to the point where I sold everything and built a whole vintage ARAH collection almost from scratch. I just hate Hasbro trying to make me buy the same toys over and over again, exploiting my poor mental condition regarding childhood memories and my constant need of dopamine and serotonin, while doing that *on their terms*. So no, I'm staying away from classified for good.
Regarding those arguments: 1) G.I. JOE is a vehicle line. I think that was the first pitch for the line way back then, but the cartoon has turned it into a character line. To me, the characters come first. Vehicles are nice, but not necessary. 2) The JOE fandom is too small to support 6" inch JOE. Hasbro never knows what their fandom is. They're always saying collectors represent a small share of their whole market, yet they invest heavily on pure nostalgia every single year. If they don't know, how should I? 3) The JOE fandom is notoriously cheap and they aren't willing to spend on 1:12 JOE figures. That's more of a fandom argument, elitist AF, as if we'd have any obligation as fans to support and sustain a multimillion dollar company - which is pure bullshit. This is not a cult, people. Treat your audience with respect regarding price, quality and distribution, and your product *will* sell.
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01-29-2024, 05:14 PM | #6 |
Just a fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: NY
Posts: 8,579
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Even Kirk Bozigian admitted the figures gradually became the focal point.
Last edited by AWOL; 01-29-2024 at 09:26 PM.. |
01-29-2024, 08:09 PM | #7 |
Desecrator of toys
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On the gulf coast .. punta gorda
Posts: 2,282
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I was all in on classified when it came out . I had vehicles & figs galore when i was a kid in the early 80’s i liked one as much as the other i was never into mego or other sized figs until legends came out my son was young he loved them then came lotr so i was softened up to the idea of 6” joes eventually i remember buying mcfarlanes military figs on super cheap clearance in hopes of them making a 6” joe line one day put them in a box and forgot about them .. i sold all my joes arah/25th/movies/poc/30th back in 2016 and said thats that . When i heard classified was coming out i told myself this is the last joe line im collecting and it will be . They didnt get me with nostalgia on joes my grand father served
my father served i served for a short while as well but i have always wanted a well made military articulated figure line fantasy based or not and thats what classified is to me they arent perfect they have their flaws but its a company that i have history with much like apple we had an apple2 pc back in the early 80’s . The only regret about liking joes so much is that i along with so many others have been giving hasbro our money for LIFE . Okay thats it
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01-30-2024, 07:56 AM | #8 |
Dark Lord of the Mods
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,340
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As a kid, I loved the 1/18th scale and the vehicles. As an adult, I prefer the 1/12th scale and fewer vehicles, because they take up space and are expensive. I would have been content without any vehicles in this line, but I'm also happy with the ones we've gotten, so far. I don't want them to start releasing too many 100+ pound vehicles per year, as that'll make it harder to collect other figure lines.
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01-30-2024, 03:54 PM | #9 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Georgia
Posts: 14
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You have to look at the context and time that was said though. At that point all anyone had ever known was 3 3/4" figures (with the exception of 12"), and they were correct it was a vehicle based property. However, I think COVID played a part in this as well, because with all that extra income for people, it made them start spending money on things they might not would have before, and after you have those figures in hand... Well it changes things. Now that things are starting to come back to reality, you have a built in fanbase and new people coming in every day, because Hasbro has done a great job with the product and created something toy collectors in general want to buy. Let's just hope it stays that way for many years to come.
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01-30-2024, 04:19 PM | #10 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,082
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I think the notion that GI JOE is a vehicle line is a misrepresentation of the business model. The line had to have items at various price points. The vehicles were the most profitable. They always had mid sized vehicles for birthdays and big premium sets for Christmas gift but figures were what carried the line between holidays and birthdays. You couldn’t sell a Skystriker, terrordrome, etc without super affordable figures that a kid could toss into a shopping cart during a grocery run.
The Hasbro and Kenner (for Star Wars, etc) execs probably saw the vehicles and play sets as most important because of the margins but kids connected to the characters above all. |
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