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09-02-2020, 02:56 PM | #1 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 868
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Hello everyone.
I feel a little weird creating an account here and immediately creating a new post, but I don't think I've ever really seen this topic discussed much, though it's been something that I've wondered about for awhile... One thing that I really loved (well, still love) about G.I. Joe was that the action figures, themselves, depicted this ongoing saga between Joe and Cobra. Because of the comics and the cartoons, you basically had your pick of three different continuities to subscribe to, each one with its own unique elements. Things got sorta weird when The Movie came out in 87, and Sunbow never got to follow up on it with a Season 3. But we did kinda/sorta get to see hints of what Sunbow's 3rd season of Joe might have looked like with the animated sequences featured during the toy commercials. And, much like the comics at the time, the toys were playing out a saga where Destro gets fed up with Cobra and leaves to form The Iron Grenadiers. We also saw the introduction of Overlord, who certainly seems like he was being positioned to be a major character given his role in the 1990 commercials. A lot of speculation has suggested that, some how and some way, Overlord was going to be revealed as Cobra Commander, returning to reclaim and reunite his organization. I believe it's Bellomo's book that says early drafts of Overlord's filecard included a filename that was an anagram for CC. The character also looks an awfully lot like unmasked face the toyline eventually settled on for CC with the HOF and Star Brigade figures..... But then, all of a sudden, Cobra Commander is back with a new shiny red faceplate (that he promptly ditches for his hood), and Destro's fallen back in line with Cobra and gone back to his old uniform, and it's more or less back to business as usual, with a heavy focus on subteams, of course. I know Joe continuity can be a little off in places, but I always wondered...what happened in this era? Did Hasbro just figure things were getting too complex and it'd be easier to go back to the old Joe vs Cobra formula? Was it an effort to make the toy line more closely resemble the DIC series, which never even attempted to feature any of the Cobra shakeups? Was Overlord going to be a new Cobra Commander, was it supposed to be the original CC returning, or what? I don't know why, but, for some reason, these questions keep me up at night. Last edited by EvilMeanie; 09-02-2020 at 03:11 PM.. |
09-02-2020, 04:47 PM | #2 |
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In terms of Overlord, he was PROBABLY intended to be the "next big Cobra". Largely due to the fact that retail hadn't had a Cobra Commander since his Battle Armor figure cycled out in 1988 (which is the reason DiC used that figure for the first season).
Overlord was several characters who suffered in the "character glut" GI Joe was experiencing after nearly a decade of releases. Larry Hama even wrote a letter to (recently reinstated) brand manager Kirk Bozigan critiquing the overload of new GI Joe characters Hasbro was introducing for the sake of "new toys". And in broad industry trends, the value of "characters" was being recognized. Hasbro successfully reintroduced Optimus Prime in 1988 after the DISASTEROUS response to his death in the 86 film. Tiger Force the same year proved the value of reissuing older figures (and characters) that hadn't been at retail for years (even as the cartoon was still regularly airing in syndication featuring those out of print characters). Kenner was successfully making new versions of the "Core Four" Ghostbusters on a yearly basis to success. Coming to 1990, GI Joe was seeing less a "reboot" and more "refinement". Whatever plans there were for Overlord were basically left by the wayside as Larry Hama was basically telling his story through a mix of the "Fred VII" and proper return of Cobra Commander in the mid 1990 comic issues. In the cartoons, Cobra Commander had far more value than "overlord" even if they were revealed to be the same person. Looking at the broader brand, you can see the move towards established characters in 1991. Of the 11 Joe basic figures, SEVEN sport an established identity. As is, Snake Eyes, Mercer and Cobra Commander didn't even make into the product catalog, which says to me that they were relatively late additions to the product line (and are among the few characters that actually look like they were intended as new iterations and not a name slap). Even the sub lines featured an established character to "anchor" the assortments (Flint in Eco Warriors, Lt. Falcon and Major Bludd in Sonic Fighters). With the exception of Firefly, all the renamed characters in the basic 92 line up were blatantly designed for those characters. And again, the sub teams were either anchored or largely composed of, established characters. Overlord was a new character, with no real hook aside from being another identity for an already iconic character. He just kind of slipped through the cracks as Hasbro and its partners pared down the character roster to more established characters.
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Last edited by Steevy Maximus; 09-02-2020 at 07:11 PM.. |
09-02-2020, 06:04 PM | #3 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
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What you're talking about started even earlier in the line. Larry wrote to Hasbro around the time of Series 4 complaining about having too many new characters. He felt that most of the Joes should have been older characters with new uniforms and specialities. Look at Wave 5: Sci-Fi=Flash, Wet Suit=Torpedo, Leatherneck=Gung Ho, Lifeline=Doc. And from a practical standpoint, 30 or so characters are a lot easier to write than double or triple that amount.
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09-02-2020, 07:10 PM | #4 |
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True, but I don't think it was until the late 80s (particularly given the response with Optimus Prime and the relative success of the sub team reissues) that Hasbro actually started to listen to that criticism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealDubya
Any sort of panic at this stage is just pure unsubstantiated reptile brain stem fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokePants
This is why companies are secretive -- because we all want the truth, but most of us cannot handle it.
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09-02-2020, 09:33 PM | #5 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,255
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As Steevy mentions about Hama's complaints. I used to have an old toy magazine from around 1992-93 where brand manager Kirk Bozigan mentions that complaint by Hama, and so he had Hama give him a list of his favorite characters as well as what characters kids were writing in to the comic saying where their favorites.
So that's why the soft reboot. Overlord might have been a working model for a new CC (thankfully changed, Cobra Commander's fashion sense is better than that!). But to say Hasbro had any concepts of CC coming back like that is a stretch. We see how the Commander came back in Operation Dragonfire. That's even if Hasbro paid attention of DIC's story, since it was mostly through Hama's file card contributions that the comic had influence of toy continuity. Hama is why Duke was first sergeant and not a colonel as Hasbro originally planned, and according to Hama he talked Hasbro out of the original Dreadnok concept..."teddy bears" to capitalize on Ewoks...I've never seen other evidence of this. Anyone ever asked Hasbro people about it? I think that 1992 Firefly was always meant to be Firefly, though. Looking past the neon, is it hard to picture that as a new Firefly? I think Barricade could've been a new Tripwire. Maybe should've been. |
09-02-2020, 09:39 PM | #6 |
Hisstank.Com General
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What a weird idea.
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09-02-2020, 11:23 PM | #7 |
Action Unlimited
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Toy line and toy line only continuity is an interesting idea. Has this been codified some where? Who was the leader of Cobra when there was no CC? The Joes when there was no Hawk? What happened to the Baroness? Etc. etc. Cool idea, IDW should run with it.
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09-03-2020, 12:12 PM | #8 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 868
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Wow! I knew this was the place to take my ponderings on this topic. I can't thank you guys enough for the insightful responses. This has really shed a lot of light on that weird post-Movie era for me, and it also explains why that era produced such a large amount of characters who barely, if at all, played any role in the comics or toons.
It'd be tough, because the toy line continuity was pretty murky. Battle Armor CC and Serpentor were featured as the Cobra leaders (or High Command I suppose would be more accurate) in the commercial where Destro splits to form the Iron Grenadiers, but I don't *think* Serpentor showed up in anymore commercials after that one. Hasbro Direct still sold Serpentor in their catalogs even after the figure was off the shelves, and the Cobra Battle Operations Booklet that came with the Hall of Fame figures lists "Emperor" as the top ranking Cobra Official, but the 90s filecards sure seem to indicate that CC is the group's founder and man in charge. |
09-03-2020, 07:40 PM | #9 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Quote:
What you're talking about started even earlier in the line. Larry wrote to Hasbro around the time of Series 4 complaining about having too many new characters. He felt that most of the Joes should have been older characters with new uniforms and specialities. Look at Wave 5: Sci-Fi=Flash, Wet Suit=Torpedo, Leatherneck=Gung Ho, Lifeline=Doc. And from a practical standpoint, 30 or so characters are a lot easier to write than double or triple that amount.
For a character focused medium, you want those memorable faces. Replacing them seems silly, even if I like some of the later characters in the archetypes like Leatherneck, Duke and Charbroil. |
09-03-2020, 10:24 PM | #10 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,449
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After reading Silent Interlude in 4th grade, the Marvel comic was my only canon. I loved the cartoon and still do, but to me it was just something fun to watch after school. So when it got really zany, like Cobra La, I just ignored it like Larry Hama did.
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