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08-11-2018, 07:14 PM | #11 |
Hisstank.Com General
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i respect your response. I know lore is cherished by fans of any fiction. I have been to Joe Cons where the restrictions were explained in plain language, and yet fans sitting next to me were still beside themselves with outright anger and fury towards the Club and Hasbro. I just don't share that form of disagreement. Disney and Lucasfilms are plainly in it for the money. I think George is the only person that spoke out about creative liberties taken and lore that was ignored in the SW universe. SOME vocal Joe fans seem to forget that Hasbro is a toy company seeking to make a profit for shareholders. The club tried to give us what we wanted, and still exercised their creative allowances to also produce characters they liked too. We would have done the same. I know a Joe collector that really dislikes Brian on a personal level. I distance myself from this collector whenever he launches into a tirade about the club.
As far as "tolerating" bad films and not tolerating being called names, my goodness... Sticks and Stones. People that know me and dont know me can call me names. They can label me. I really dont care. If I dont like something I stay away from it. IF ASKED, I will share my reasons. I dont take it personally if things dont change to my liking. It is entertaining that people actually use the term "tolerate" as though they have a voice in the decision. I hope GI Joe returns with a whole new scale and mythos. I would love a major reboot or reset of the brand. Its time for change. I grew up on the Adventure Team. ARAH was a huge departure in scale, and in lore. I am ready for a 1:12 scale. Yo Joe Well I think we’ll have to just agree to disagree and leave it at that then. Your first sentence in your second paragraph reads that you think being labeled as a racist of sexist for not liking a movie is a fair exchange. With regards to the Club they deserve criticism they get. I have never and will never receive my Doc subscription figure. I never received a reply from any of the emails that I sent. Accidents, mistake, bad judgement happens to us all, but ignoring that such things happen when they do will cost you customers. I haven’t bought a thing from them since, and have stayed away from them completely. Take care.
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08-11-2018, 07:23 PM | #12 |
Hisstank.Com General
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It would be easier to accept, if not for the fact that so much of the criticism was explicitly racist and sexist. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, and Kelly Tran all suffered personal, bigoted attacks which had nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the film.
Even right here on Hisstank we have fans who scream at the top of their lungs about “social justice warriors” and other imaginary enemies, as if diversity is somehow a personal attack on them. It is disgusting.
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08-11-2018, 07:59 PM | #13 |
Hisstank.Com General
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I totally get where you were coming from Quartermaine. There comes a time when your just like WTF give it a rest. Negativity breeds more negativity and it eventually drowns everything else out.
I can't say I followed any of the nonsense that came with the recent SW movies. Mostly because the prequels were bad enough and I was never a huge fan anyway so I haven't had the urge to see them. I will say diversity should not feel forced. This is one of the things that Gi Joe did really well. It gave you a bunch of different people from all different backgrounds without ever feeling like it was to push anyones own point of view. Characters like Scarlett and Lady Jaye were just as strong and capable as any of thier male counter parts and I never gave it a second thought. Same goes for characters like Stalker Spirit Quick kick Alpine and the many others that came from many different races and backgrounds all were equally as great as the next. I know I am rambling a bit here but I guess it all boils down to everyone's own personal POV and how they see the world.
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08-11-2018, 08:03 PM | #14 |
I just want foam gliders.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tooele (two-willa), Utah
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The difference I see between us and Star Wars fans is we dislike the movies, but don't spread hate on the actors and actresses who worked on them.
These racist assholes caused a few Star Wars people to flat out delete their online presence. That's wrong.
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08-11-2018, 09:17 PM | #15 |
Psych-Out's Intern
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Clifton, TX
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I think a lot of the problems seen in fandoms is that too many times the “right to speak freely” is misinterpreted to be the “right to be heard”. Nobody has that right, I certainly don’t. Just because an opinion is held strongly does not mean that it compels the rest of mankind to be forced to stand at attention and listen.
I’m about to give an example. I’m a minister and soon to be a licenced therapist in the state of Texas; while I’ve been in my masters program, one of the theories we study is Adler’s rational emotive behavior therapy. At it’s core are 12 irrational beliefs that are common to people who have problems just being a social being, The first one: “The idea that it is a dire necessity for an adult human being to be loved or approved by virtually every significant other person in his community.” How many people do we know that fit this? How do I fit in here? I’m under no illusions that I am a significant member of the community of anyone reading these words. I’m a nobody. I’m a guy who likes action figures who talks to other folks that are into the same thing. I appreciate everyone here, especially those who’ve been of help to me learning how to do customs. But that doesn’t mean my opinions are more valid than those of anyone else here. |
08-11-2018, 09:29 PM | #16 |
Joe Gramps aka Mr H
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ ▬▬ι═══════ﺤ
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I don't understand the bombardment of attacks towards the actors and directors on social media. I've seen all of the films since the original and have enjoyed them all (prequels not so much...) I understand that Force Awakens and Last Jedi aren't in the same spirit as the original trilogy but I enjoyed them regardless of how different they were from the first three. Hell, I remember the criticism Empire Strikes Back received when it was initially released and now it's hailed as the best film in the entire series. People in this day just don't realize that good manners shouldn't fall to the wayside just because you're hidden behind a computer monitor.
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08-11-2018, 11:28 PM | #17 |
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i am very easy to please, I welcomed the Gi Joe films even thought they were mediocre. I think the problem with SW is that the original 6 films had a very fundamental story: the rise, fall and redemption of one man. The story had a very strong base in mythologycal and biblical stories. And it was influenced by the writings of Joseph Campbell. If you read some of his works or watch the Power of Myth, Joseph Campbell an interview by Bill Moyers it would provide with some of the basis behind the original 6 films. The new films, which in my opinion, lack any cohesiveness and direction is because they follow a story that is no longer there, thus are void. I think that instead they should have explored a new story and plot within the extensive SW universe.
I do not think that any actor or director should be personally attacked for their work or interpretation of SW. I do not really like the new Disney films and really will not go to see them at the theatre, not because I am boycotting the films, is simply because I do not care about the storyline or the films. On the other hand I found Attack On Titan and I am really excited about that story. The character development is profound, the storyline highlights our humanity, the speed and action scenes are just superb. I have great memories of SW and those are not diminished by the recent films, but maybe is time to put SW behind and move on to new stories and themes that inspires us and makes dreamers of us again. SW was a legend but there are other new legends to come, let's embrace them. Last edited by Formulazl1; 08-11-2018 at 11:54 PM.. |
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08-11-2018, 11:57 PM | #18 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: U.S.
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There is a lot of validity in what you are writing. However, when specifically referring to Star Wars I think it’s only fair to point out that while many fans did not enjoy some of the newer films the toxicity festered from many high profile Lucas Film people of labeling people who did not enjoy the films as racist and or sexist. BOTH side could have chosen their words better and kept the arguments from getting personal but LF/Disney basically made blanket statements against large groups of fans simply for not liking a hugely unpopular film.
There is no shortage of nerd rage and nerd entitlement on all fan boy sites. But if you attack your fan base or throw labels around you can’t complain when your base turns on you. Many fans who did not enjoy the new films have come out and said that they can tolerate a bad film but will not tolerate being labeled as something they are not because they didn’t like something. imho, the most recent Star Wars movie(s) have been rather poor and declining in quality. The Force Awakens was mostly good, Rogue One was somewhat watchable, The Last Jedi I couldn't make it through more than a few minutes, and I haven't seen the latest one, Solo. It has nothing to do with gender or skin color. Part of it is the way culture is evolving which results in the way certain careless, ignorant, or rebelious attitudes and personalities are highlighted, encouraged, and essentially praised today that wouldn't have been in the past, combined with me getting older and not appreciating a movie where kids with smartass attitudes run around doing things they could never in reality do and therefore not being able to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy the movie. And that's not unique to Star Wars. I couldn't stand the latest Transformers movie, either (The Last Knight I think it was?). I made it further into The Last Jedi than I could make it watching that garbage. All that said, obviously personal attacks are unwarranted and nobody in their right mind is defending that sort of behavior when they're defending the freedom to criticize work product. One of the biggest problems today in civil discourse is the inability to assume and ascribe reasonable or good intentions to others, particularly those we debate. Somewhere, perhaps in universities today, young people are being taught all of the wrong conversational and rhetorical tactics. They're basically being taught to ad hominen, strawman, red herring, and commit other logical fallacies when faced with a challenge, rather than putting effort into forming a reasoned and substantive response. They are taught emotional response rather than intellectual response. They are taught that being upset is a virtue rather than self control. As a result, we see them rush to label criticism as "hate", commentary as "bias" and discernment as "intolerance". They assume the worst about others, and leap to negative conclusions as to others' intentions or mindset, rather than asking them what their intent or mindset is. And it's really getting bad out there to the point that civil discourse is more often shouted down or silenced than it is allowed. It's as if they're threatened by intelligence, facts, and reason. And maybe they are. It's a shame, but it seems like things will get worse before they get better. Last edited by edgecrusher; 08-12-2018 at 12:07 AM.. |
08-12-2018, 12:27 AM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,050
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Quote:
Well said. Criticism is an important part of feedback, and if only praise is allowed or criticism is suppressed, it leads to mediocrity. An echo chamber is not a valid sounding board.
imho, the most recent Star Wars movie(s) have been rather poor and declining in quality. The Force Awakens was mostly good, Rogue One was somewhat watchable, The Last Jedi I couldn't make it through more than a few minutes, and I haven't seen the latest one, Solo. It has nothing to do with gender or skin color. Part of it is the way culture is evolving which results in the way certain careless, ignorant, or rebelious attitudes and personalities are highlighted, encouraged, and essentially praised today that wouldn't have been in the past, combined with me getting older and not appreciating a movie where kids with smartass attitudes run around doing things they could never in reality do and therefore not being able to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy the movie. And that's not unique to Star Wars. I couldn't stand the latest Transformers movie, either (The Last Knight I think it was?). I made it further into The Last Jedi than I could make it watching that garbage. All that said, obviously personal attacks are unwarranted and nobody in their right mind is defending that sort of behavior when they're defending the freedom to criticize work product. One of the biggest problems today in civil discourse is the inability to assume and ascribe reasonable or good intentions to others, particularly those we debate. Somewhere, perhaps in universities today, young people are being taught all of the wrong conversational and rhetorical tactics. They're basically being taught to ad hominen, strawman, red herring, and commit other logical fallacies when faced with a challenge, rather than putting effort into forming a reasoned and substantive response. They are taught emotional response rather than intellectual response. They are taught that being upset is a virtue rather than self control. As a result, we see them rush to label criticism as "hate", commentary as "bias" and discernment as "intolerance". They assume the worst about others, and leap to negative conclusions as to others' intentions or mindset, rather than asking them what their intent or mindset is. And it's really getting bad out there to the point that civil discourse is more often shouted down or silenced than it is allowed. It's as if they're threatened by intelligence, facts, and reason. And maybe they are. It's a shame, but it seems like things will get worse before they get better. |
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08-12-2018, 12:44 AM | #20 |
Cobra Lab Rat
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 3,046
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I just don't think generalizations of "Star Wars Fans" will cut it this time.
There's a lot of data if you dig that says Last Jedi Struggled to perform better than Rogue one at the Box Office and Blue Ray sales are half of the Force Awakens and only barely above Rogue One's ------------------- (Some sources I dug up) https://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdo...oguevforce.htm https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthan...last_jedi_was/ -------------- If the general audience is angry or doesn't like your product, you get a lot of angry people. If you get a lot of angry people, you get proportionally more people acting like big jerks. And the worst responses get all the attention, not legitimate criticism about the poorly flowing story narratives of Disney Star Wars or the Nostalgia baiting and the poor Business practices of Lucas Film under Disney. Or the fact again, that Lucas Film Employees couldn't stop baiting fights on twitter daily for months, it's endless. |
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