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07-18-2016, 01:23 PM | #41 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 4,069
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If Michael Jordan was inducted as "greatest Baseball player ever," is a good analogy. He should rank based on Baseball skills/history, not overall athletic fame.
Then again, any ranking for Jordan would be based on his fame, as he would be likely to rank far above other similarly skilled baseball players, no matter what. So, yes. He is a perfect example for Matt Trakker / Megatron. |
07-18-2016, 01:53 PM | #42 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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Quote:
I think we should be looking at how to make more characters eligible: (Marissa, Synthoids, Trakker, Bench Press, Speed Metal, etc...)
Instead of arguing that characters should NOT be eligible. The only really compelling reasons to keep characters out (to me) have been: 1) Animals who are characters, but are primarily accessories of other major characters (in which case they should be linked like Tomax/Xamot); 2) Characters who are better associated with another brand: Transformers, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter; 3) Characters already inducted into poll, and 4) Characters not actually associated with G.I. Joe. |
07-18-2016, 02:59 PM | #43 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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I think Stalker articulated it best though I generally agree more with Lifeline's view: Characters most associated with another brand should generally remain with that brand. Hence, Transformers, Street Fighters and MASK members should only be nominted in polls about the greatest Transformers, Street Fighters and MASK characters respectively. Not in a GI Joe character poll, regardless of genealogy, family connections, or appearances in the Joe universe. That's how I would define the general parameters for simplicity.
However, notable exceptions would of course include Slaughter because he essentially left WWF to join the GI Joe brand and due to multiple toys and an extensive presence in GI Joe, he has become almost synonymous with GI Joe. Perhaps more so than WWF. Roddy kind of follows the same path but to a lesser degree. Fridge is a different animal altogether because he wasn't part of another brand so he doesn't technically fall under the same umbrella as crossovers. But he should remain eligible for obvious reasons. Characters like Stealth BAT that don't truly belong to one brand more than another because they were created in a crossover universe are a different matter, but I don't agree with the claim that because Marissa is a Joe daughter she is therefore a character purely created in a crossover world. She was created in Transformers, so therefore she is a Transformer character in my opinion. Old Snake is just another version of Cobra Commander that appears in Transformers. And since we already have CC, he's not even relevant. Having said all that, I'm not drastically opposed to making small exceptions for one or two characters from another brand, but I definitely don't want a rule that opens up the poll to all of those Tranformers and such because there are a ton of them. If it were just a few like Marissa and Trakker, I wouldn't care that much. But I've come up with a reasonable compromise that I think many might find acceptable. That is: If a character from another brand is portrayed or described in a way that makes him a member of GI Joe, Cobra, MARS, Oktober Guard, or other GI Joe-created faction, then he is eligible. That would place Slaughter, Piper, Faireborn, Trakker, Bullet Brain, and others like them under the same umbrella, therefore making a consistent, sensible rule that doesn't retroactively contradict characters who've already won, nor permit just any character that appears under the GI Joe Brand or with a GI Joe label on it (like Indiana Jones). All of those characters above are described in their file cards as belonging to or "joining" factions in the GI Joe universe. Faireborn works for Hawk's "EARTH DEFENSE COMMAND," Slaughter and Piper are instructors (Fridge too), Tracker joins "forces with the GI Joe team," and Stealth BAT is properly owned by "Cobra." It's an easy, painless, sensible compromise to an otherwise complicated and fuzzy affair. Other Transformers, however, may be allies but they don't belong to Joe or Cobra, thus ineligible. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 07-18-2016 at 03:04 PM.. |
07-18-2016, 03:42 PM | #44 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
|
That compromise at least eliminates the opening for the more ridiculous, but admitting Tracker still opens up all of MASK's universe because he's said to have merged his entire team with G.I. Joe, not just himself.
Fairborne doesn't fall under that compromise. Hawk may have led the EDC (which I actually don't believe is mentioned officially anywhere. but I don't follow Transformers as closely), but even if he did, that in no way makes her a member of any G.I. Joe-created, relevant or interacted with faction. Which would (and SHOULD) still leave her ineligible. |
07-18-2016, 04:22 PM | #45 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brasil
Posts: 476
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Quote:
Survey 1. Characters that are not human or humanoid and have NO human shape or likeness, EXCLUDING plants and animals. Examples: synthoids, blobs, and giant alien eyeballs. Response: Eligible 2. Characters that have ONLY appeared in a G.I. Joe crossover series, such as “Transformers vs G.I. Joe” or “Street Fighter x G.I. Joe,” regardless of origination. Examples: Marissa Faireborn, Stealth BAT, Bludgeon, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Chun Li, Blanka, Guile, and many more. Response: Deffinitly ineligible 3. Characters that appeared but did NOT originate in G.I. Joe media, EXCLUDING those in a crossover series (see examples above) or previous poll winners (e.g. Sgt. Slaughter and Roddy Piper). Examples: Matt Trakker and Bullet Man. Response: Definettly eligible 4. Characters that were published but later retracted with a statement of correction. Examples: Rocky Balboa. Response: Deffinitly ineligible 5. Characters that were unproduced or cancelled prototypes. Examples: Kaos Crew, Arkanoid (Manimal), Spasma (Manimal), and many more. Response: Deffinitly ineligible 6. Characters that were unpublished sketches, concepts, or narratives. Examples: Dave Dorman's Dreadnok with a mohawk and Kurt Groen's pirate oil baron. (https://arealamericanbook.wordpress.com/tag/unproduced/) Response: Deffinitly ineligible 7. Characters of unlicensed media, including custom toys and fan fiction but excluding licensed material in Kindle Worlds. Examples include Chef and Noga87’s “franken Joes.” Response: Deffinitly ineligible 8. Characters from parallel or alternative universes that can interact with their non-alternative counterparts, EXCLUDING characters, such as Tamox from "Shattered Glass," who are merely alternative versions and can not interact with the original versions of themselves. Examples: the Baroness from “Worlds Without End” episodes. Response: Deffinitly ineligible 9. Characters of independent continuities who have unique code names but share the same GIVEN NAME as original or preceding characters. Examples: ROC Air Raid (Franklin Talltree), ROC Bench Press (Craig McConnel), and ROC Speed Metal (Sherman Guderian). Response: Deffinitly ineligible (the key for the character is his/hers given name) done! |
07-18-2016, 04:24 PM | #46 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brasil
Posts: 476
|
Quote:
That compromise at least eliminates the opening for the more ridiculous, but admitting Tracker still opens up all of MASK's universe because he's said to have merged his entire team with G.I. Joe, not just himself.
Fairborne doesn't fall under that compromise. Hawk may have led the EDC (which I actually don't believe is mentioned officially anywhere. but I don't follow Transformers as closely), but even if he did, that in no way makes her a member of any G.I. Joe-created, relevant or interacted with faction. Which would (and SHOULD) still leave her ineligible. Getting a figure, or being in one of the main media (comics, cartoon, movie) is the main criteria for being eligible |
07-18-2016, 06:40 PM | #47 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
|
Quote:
That compromise at least eliminates the opening for the more ridiculous, but admitting Tracker still opens up all of MASK's universe because he's said to have merged his entire team with G.I. Joe, not just himself.
Fairborne doesn't fall under that compromise. Hawk may have led the EDC (which I actually don't believe is mentioned officially anywhere. but I don't follow Transformers as closely), but even if he did, that in no way makes her a member of any G.I. Joe-created, relevant or interacted with faction. Which would (and SHOULD) still leave her ineligible. |
07-18-2016, 08:23 PM | #48 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
|
Just because the majority want it does not make it accurate or remotely logical.
I've provided several examples of why including Fairborne is utterly illogical. If we include Matt because he had a figure in G.I. Joe packaging then that means that: a ) since his package mentions MASK and VENOM then ALL MASK characters are therefore eligible. Trakker, other than one (admittedly well done) figure had noting to do with the universe, and neither did the rest of MASK, and including them above any G.I. Joe who did, regardless of how small an impact it may have been, is completely at odds with any logic. b ) someone like Indiana Jones who also appeared in G.I. Joe packaging is also eligible. In that case, neither character other than a one off tribute figure (both of whom had their actual origin prominently displayed on the package) contributed ANYTHING to the G.I. Joe universe. Neither belongs. |
07-18-2016, 08:27 PM | #49 |
Broca Beach Realtor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Broca Beach
Posts: 8,260
|
Quote:
Survey 1. Characters that are not human or humanoid and have NO human shape or likeness, EXCLUDING plants and animals. Examples: synthoids, blobs, and giant alien eyeballs. Response: ineligable 2. Characters that have ONLY appeared in a G.I. Joe crossover series, such as “Transformers vs G.I. Joe” or “Street Fighter x G.I. Joe,” regardless of origination. Examples: Marissa Faireborn, Stealth BAT, Bludgeon, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Chun Li, Blanka, Guile, and many more. Response: definitely ineligable 3. Characters that appeared but did NOT originate in G.I. Joe media, EXCLUDING those in a crossover series (see examples above) or previous poll winners (e.g. Sgt. Slaughter and Roddy Piper). Examples: Matt Trakker and Bullet Man. Response: definitely ineligable 4. Characters that were published but later retracted with a statement of correction. Examples: Rocky Balboa. Response: most definitely ineligable 5. Characters that were unproduced or cancelled prototypes. Examples: Kaos Crew, Arkanoid (Manimal), Spasma (Manimal), and many more. Response: definitely ineligable 6. Characters that were unpublished sketches, concepts, or narratives. Examples: Dave Dorman's Dreadnok with a mohawk and Kurt Groen's pirate oil baron. (https://arealamericanbook.wordpress.com/tag/unproduced/) Response: definitely ineligable 7. Characters of unlicensed media, including custom toys and fan fiction but excluding licensed material in Kindle Worlds. Examples include Chef and Noga87’s “franken Joes.” Response: definitely ineligable 8. Characters from parallel or alternative universes that can interact with their non-alternative counterparts, EXCLUDING characters, such as Tamox from "Shattered Glass," who are merely alternative versions and can not interact with the original versions of themselves. Examples: the Baroness from “Worlds Without End” episodes. Response: Ineligable 9. Characters of independent continuities who have unique code names but share the same GIVEN NAME as original or preceding characters. Examples: ROC Air Raid (Franklin Talltree), ROC Bench Press (Craig McConnel), and ROC Speed Metal (Sherman Guderian). Response:
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07-18-2016, 08:55 PM | #50 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Yeah technically Indiana Jones could appear too, although it feels dirty.
I think if you clear up any general categories that closes the door on a few things, but I bet we get get a thumbs up thumbs down on the 20 or so questionable ones and tally them up, and close the door on further one off characters. I mean I don't plan on voting for any of these anytime soon so they are essentially irrelevant. However we could put this baby to bed. To me a figure being made is the greatest step towards inclusion but I don't think this has to be a legal brief, just the village elders getting together and voting up or down. So who are we actually talking about? Crossovers with figures: Marissa Faireborne Matt Trakker Starscream Hound Shockwave Ravage Jetfire Bludgeon Street Fighter figures Rocky Who else?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
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