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07-16-2016, 02:39 PM | #31 |
twitter viper
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SD
Posts: 4,909
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Quote:
Survey Everyone who completes the following survey will earn two additional bonus nominations for the “Greatest G.I. Joe Character of all Time” poll. The entire survey must be completed to receive the bonus nominations. To complete the survey, simply quote this post and write one of the five responses listed below beside each of the nine survey statements. For example, if you agree that a certain character type should be allowed in the poll, write “Eligible.” If you strongly agree, write “Definitely Eligible.” If you disagree, write “Ineligible,” and if you strongly disagree, write “Definitely Ineligible.” If you are uncertain or don’t care one way or the other about a character type, write “Indifferent.” Choose one of these responses for each statement below: Definitely Eligible Eligible Indifferent Ineligible Definitely Ineligible 1. Characters that are not human or humanoid and have NO human shape or likeness, EXCLUDING plants and animals. Examples: synthoids, blobs, and giant alien eyeballs. Response: Ineligible 2. Characters that have ONLY appeared in a G.I. Joe crossover series, such as “Transformers vs G.I. Joe” or “Street Fighter x G.I. Joe,” regardless of origination. Examples: Marissa Faireborn, Stealth BAT, Bludgeon, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Chun Li, Blanka, Guile, and many more. Response Eligible, BUT I would not put the main characters of a crossover into this category unless like Abbey Chase they don a new GIJOE/Cobra uniform and become a member of the team. Optimus Prime is not eligible, HISS tank Optimusfrom the comic is eligible. 3. Characters that appeared but did NOT originate in G.I. Joe media, EXCLUDING those in a crossover series (see examples above) or previous poll winners (e.g. Sgt. Slaughter and Roddy Piper). Examples: Matt Trakker and Bullet Man. Response: Eligible 4. Characters that were published but later retracted with a statement of correction. Examples: Rocky Balboa. Response: Ineligible 5. Characters that were unproduced or cancelled prototypes. Examples: Kaos Crew, Arkanoid (Manimal), Spasma (Manimal), and many more. Response: Ineligible 6. Characters that were unpublished sketches, concepts, or narratives. Examples: Dave Dorman's Dreadnok with a mohawk and Kurt Groen's pirate oil baron. (https://arealamericanbook.wordpress.com/tag/unproduced/) Response: Ineligible 7. Characters of unlicensed media, including custom toys and fan fiction but excluding licensed material in Kindle Worlds. Examples include Chef and Noga87’s “franken Joes.” Response: Ineligible until used in an official capacity, such as a figure or licensed form of media. 8. Characters from parallel or alternative universes that can interact with their non-alternative counterparts, EXCLUDING characters, such as Tamox from "Shattered Glass," who are merely alternative versions and can not interact with the original versions of themselves. Examples: the Baroness from “Worlds Without End” episodes. Response: Eligible 9. Characters of independent continuities who have unique code names but share the same GIVEN NAME as original or preceding characters. Examples: ROC Air Raid (Franklin Talltree), ROC Bench Press (Craig McConnel), and ROC Speed Metal (Sherman Guderian). Response: Eligible http://www.yojoe.com/images/resize/w...atttrakker.jpg
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Take a load off and watch some GIJOE videos. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYF...fZnzjMATv1_JGg That's the way the Pogo Ballistic Battle Ball bounces. |
07-16-2016, 02:50 PM | #32 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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I understand but my point was that there wasn't a separate GI Joe / MASK toy series like there was with Transformers or Street Fighter. He appears in a GI Joe 25th Anniversary toy series, so I don't personally consider the toy series a crossover series.
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07-16-2016, 03:07 PM | #33 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: tampa fl
Posts: 5,109
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At least not yet LOL
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07-16-2016, 07:11 PM | #34 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 486
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Quote:
Survey Everyone who completes [ ... ] other about a character type, write “Indifferent.” Choose one of these responses for each statement below: Definitely Eligible Eligible Indifferent Ineligible Definitely Ineligible 1. Characters that are not human or humanoid and have NO human shape or likeness, EXCLUDING plants and animals. Examples: synthoids, blobs, and giant alien eyeballs. Response:Indifferent 2. Characters that have ONLY appeared in a G.I. Joe crossover series, such as “Transformers vs G.I. Joe” or “Street Fighter x G.I. Joe,” regardless of origination. Examples: Marissa Faireborn, Stealth BAT, Bludgeon, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Chun Li, Blanka, Guile, and many more. Responseefinitely Ineligible 3. Characters that appeared but did NOT originate in G.I. Joe media, EXCLUDING those in a crossover series (see examples above) or previous poll winners (e.g. Sgt. Slaughter and Roddy Piper). Examples: Matt Trakker and Bullet Man. Response:Indifferent 4. Characters that were published but later retracted with a statement of correction. Examples: Rocky Balboa. Responseefinitely Ineligible 5. Characters that were unproduced or cancelled prototypes. Examples: Kaos Crew, Arkanoid (Manimal), Spasma (Manimal), and many more. Responseefinitely Ineligible 6. Characters that were unpublished sketches, concepts, or narratives. Examples: Dave Dorman's Dreadnok with a mohawk and Kurt Groen's pirate oil baron. (https://arealamericanbook.wordpress.com/tag/unproduced/) Responseefinitely Ineligible 7. Characters of unlicensed media, including custom toys and fan fiction but excluding licensed material in Kindle Worlds. Examples include Chef and Noga87’s “franken Joes.” Responseefinitely Ineligible 8. Characters from parallel or alternative universes that can interact with their non-alternative counterparts, EXCLUDING characters, such as Tamox from "Shattered Glass," who are merely alternative versions and can not interact with the original versions of themselves. Examples: the Baroness from “Worlds Without End” episodes. Responseefinitely Ineligible 9. Characters of independent continuities who have unique code names but share the same GIVEN NAME as original or preceding characters. Examples: ROC Air Raid (Franklin Talltree), ROC Bench Press (Craig McConnel), and ROC Speed Metal (Sherman Guderian). Responseefinitely Ineligible |
07-16-2016, 08:14 PM | #35 |
Heroes Sometimes Die
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 812
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1: Definitely Ineligible
2: Eligible 3: Eligible 4: Definitely Ineligible 5:Eligible 6: Definitely Ineligible 7: Definitely Ineligible 8: Definitely Ineligible 9:Eligible I'm gonna hold on to my nominations for later.
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07-17-2016, 04:38 PM | #36 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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Quote:
Question 2 doesn't make sense to me. The examples offered are inconsistent with the premise. Optimus Prime has not ONLY appeared in G.I. Joe vs. Transformers. He appeared in Transformers independently. Stealth B.A.T. is a character who did ONLY appear in a crossover series. This should be two separate questions at least. Characters who ONLY appear in a crossover series have no clear home in either a Joe or Transformers poll, so they are a very different animal than a character who originated in one of the properties crossing over. So that requires 2 separate questions.
Quote:
Arguably, Marissa is a different animal entirely, because her very existence is predicated on the existence of G.I. Joe. I would argue every episode she is in is technically a crossover, and she is a character who originated in a crossover story, not in a solo Transformers story. This interpretation becomes even more clear when you look at Old Snake and how his episode is clearly a crossover with G.I. Joe. So given that categorization, we wouldn't need another question for her, she would be covered under the current wording of Question 2. We certainly need to allow for the fact that one STORY in a series can be a crossover, even if the whole series isn't. We saw that clearly happen in the later Marvel Joe comic with a few issues of a crossover story that the club's upcoming set is based on.
Her existence is predicated on the existence of two parents with the last name Fairborne. Her parents happen to both be members of the G.I. Joe team and G.I. Joe Universe. That argument is like saying that Chelsea Clinton has to be included in a list of "Greatest Presidents of All Time" because her existence is predicated on the existence of there being American Presidents. That's absurd. Yes, her father (and maybe mother as well) were (or will be) American Presidents. Just because she is their descendent does not make her a president by default. That's basically what you're trying to argue. That's completely different from Cobra Commander/Old Snake who actually appeared in BOTH universes and participated in both universes. |
07-17-2016, 10:13 PM | #37 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Well if the Universe is infinite and never ending then any children Lady Jaye and Flint would have in the future are still part of that universe. Even though we never saw Marissa in the Joe incarnations we witness, Marissa exists in a future Joe world with presumably no more Gijoe, but it existed. Transformers are the threat in that future timeline. Same Universe.
Are old Snake and Marissa in the same episodes?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-18-2016, 12:28 AM | #38 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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But then theoretically we could say "caveman bob" deserves to be in the poll because he was in the universe. That's illogical.
To be a G.i. Joe character, there should be some requirement that you actually had some impact on the G.I. Joe story. Marissa does not, even if she is part of the same timeline. Example: Most everyone I presume knows what the NHL is. But for those of you less familiar, in the mid-80s, it absorbed teams from a another league, the World Hockey Association. One of those teams was the Edmonton Oilers. There were many great players in the World Hockey Association. Wayne Gretzky chief among them. He also happened to play for Edmonton. If we were doing a poll of greatest World Hockey Association players of all time, Gretzky would be eligible. He would be for greatest NHL players as well. But someone like Ryan Nuget-Hopkins drafted by the Edmonton Oilers in the past decade would NOT be eligible for the greatest World Hockey Association players list, because he never played in it. Even though him being drafted for and playing for the Edmonton Oilers is predicated on the WHA being absorbed by the NHL. The logic completely breaks down when you look at any comparable circumstance. |
07-18-2016, 01:14 PM | #39 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I see what you're saying and that makes a lot of sense character wise, and if the toys did not matter.. then the field is yours.
However the toys end up playing a piece to how the toys are characterized in a fan's mind. As a HASBRO/CLUB produced figure, who is a crossover, with the added benefit of good genes, she stands apart. So perhaps a more appropriate analogy would be a player who is drafted by the Carolina Hurricanes, can still attach himself to the history of the Franchise to the Hartford Whalers. Maybe new management, new ownership, new fanbase, but the Whaler history still belongs to the Hurricanes. Depending on how you word the orignal argument makes all the difference. Greatest NHL Whaler ever doesn't neccessarily equate to Greatest Joe ever. It could be Greatest NHL Hurricane/Whaler ever since the two are tied together. I don't think there reaaly is a good crossover analogy. Football teams don't play baseball. Maybe like Lawrence Taylor joining WWF for a hot minute in Westlemania. (I don't watch wrestling so I can't say how that was view by Wrestling fans, but it happened.)
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-18-2016, 01:19 PM | #40 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 4,069
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I think we should be looking at how to make more characters eligible: (Marissa, Synthoids, Trakker, Bench Press, Speed Metal, etc...)
Instead of arguing that characters should NOT be eligible. The only really compelling reasons to keep characters out (to me) have been: 1) Animals who are characters, but are primarily accessories of other major characters (in which case they should be linked like Tomax/Xamot); 2) Characters who are better associated with another brand: Transformers, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter; 3) Characters already inducted into poll, and 4) Characters not actually associated with G.I. Joe. |
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