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02-22-2016, 12:59 AM | #1 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 522
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HAsbro should dedicated themselves to do a show and toy series with navy vehicles.
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02-22-2016, 01:18 AM | #2 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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The Joes are supposed to be a counter-terrorism force. Those forces use small boats to board hijacked ships. You don't do ship-to-ship boarding directly from a Destroyer or a Carrier. Plus, most of the jobs on a large ship are pretty mundane.
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02-22-2016, 01:47 AM | #3 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,617
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I actually want Mess-hall Joes, and Growndcrew....
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02-22-2016, 04:55 AM | #4 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Mountain Home,Ar
Posts: 20
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Just came back to HISS after a long hiatus, so a quick hello to every one on my return. Back Razor made a point as far as the Joe's go. From the way SF and counter task teams operate, typically they can acquire what ever assets they may need for what ever mission that may call for it. Although they do have a carrier the USS Flag. With a carrier it does have a escort group. So it would surmise that, in the real world, the Joe's would have a Naval group at their disposal. As far as Cobra goes, you could say that in the past, with Cobra Island, they would have a coastal defense navy. These would be made up by the various type Water Moccasin swamp boats, the Cobra version of the Whale, and the Moray, and maybe a few helicarriers that you see in one of the season openers of the original G.I.Joe cartoon. Now I do recall in one or two original line of the G.I.Joe comic books where Cobra did have a large vessel or two, one being a oil tanker. I want to say that they even had a Destroyer that Destro had acquired for them. But as far as Cobra as a whole goes, they are a terrorist organization, so I would surmise that, being a terrorist organization, they would employ small craft, not full blown naval assault groups.
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02-22-2016, 08:57 AM | #5 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,579
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As noted: Naval warfare isn't all that exciting on the "individual action figure" level. It's mostly big ships shooting big guns or missiles or torpedoes at things that they can't even see. Or put another way, it's more about hardware vs. hardware than character vs. character.
Though G.I. Joe themselves should have had a pretty sizable navy given that they had an aircraft carrier, and a carrier group is nothing to sneeze at. But really it's because it's hard to make big navy ships as toys at a reasonable pricepoint. ;) |
02-22-2016, 09:43 AM | #6 |
Cobra Interrogator
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Undisclosed Military Installation in Kentucky
Posts: 1,466
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To add to what others have said, this kind of speaks to the weirdness of GI Joe as an organization. The comics claim they are a special mission unit and are in fact Delta Force (about which even less was known in the 80s than is known today). Yet sometimes they are portrayed as being the entire US military. Think about it: If an aircraft carrier were subordinated to GI Joe, that means a Major General is in command of about 1/10 the combat power of the entire US Navy. This is absurd. IRL, a counterterrorism team uses a carrier as a launching platform and base of operations... They don't "own" it and nobody paints "SEAL Team 6" on the side of their aircraft carrier to advertise it.
As for Cobra, they are already pretty absurd for a terrorist organization. Hama had to contrive a story about Cobra becoming a sovreign nation just to justify their continued existence. Re-read issue 41 and tell me whether the Bush Administration would have put up with that bullshit. Anyway, terrorist groups are not generally known for their large blue water navies. The only major naval insurgency I know of operates in the Niger River Delta and uses lots of fishing boats rather than destroyers and submarines. I agree with all the other points. The Flagg is nowhere near 1:18 scale, and basically every ship would require a giant Flagg-size playset. As others have pointed out, there would be a whole lot of maintenance guys, computer technicians, and other button pusher types. It would be less, "Navy Commando with Kung Fu Grip" and more "Nuclear Engineer with Graduate Degree." There are lots of movies and novels that have successfully turned naval combat into dramatic fiction, but comics and cartoons are probably not the best vehicle for those kinds of stories. There's a reason Joes act more like superheroes than actual soldiers. Finally, I would submit that writing naval combat requires a lot of specialized knowledge. Hama's experience was in Vietnam, and his writing reflects that. This is why TV Tropes has an entire page dedicated to why aquatic settings are boring... Comic book writers just don't have the knowledge or experience to portray the technical aspects of naval warfare in an exciting and accessible manner. Those writers that do, like Tom Clancy, are specialists who have made a lifelong study of the subject. Last edited by solosam; 02-22-2016 at 09:47 AM.. |
02-22-2016, 09:52 AM | #7 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,579
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Quote:
To add to what others have said, this kind of speaks to the weirdness of GI Joe as an organization. The comics claim they are a special mission unit and are in fact Delta Force (about which even less was known in the 80s than is known today). Yet sometimes they are portrayed as being the entire US military. Think about it: If an aircraft carrier were subordinated to GI Joe, that means a Major General is in command of about 1/10 the combat power of the entire US Navy. This is absurd. IRL, a counterterrorism team uses a carrier as a launching platform and base of operations... They don't "own" it and nobody paints "SEAL Team 6" on the side of their aircraft carrier to advertise it.
As for Cobra, they are already pretty absurd for a terrorist organization. Hama had to contrive a story about Cobra becoming a sovreign nation just to justify their continued existence. Re-read issue 41 and tell me whether the Bush Administration would have put up with that bullshit. Anyway, terrorist groups are not generally known for their large blue water navies. The only major naval insurgency I know of operates in the Niger River Delta and uses lots of fishing boats rather than destroyers and submarines. I agree with all the other points. The Flagg is nowhere near 1:18 scale, and basically every ship would require a giant Flagg-size playset. As others have pointed out, there would be a whole lot of maintenance guys, computer technicians, and other button pusher types. It would be less, "Navy Commando with Kung Fu Grip" and more "Nuclear Engineer with Graduate Degree." There are lots of movies and novels that have successfully turned naval combat into dramatic fiction, but comics and cartoons are probably not the best vehicle for those kinds of stories. There's a reason Joes act more like superheroes than actual soldiers. Finally, I would submit that writing naval combat requires a lot of specialized knowledge. Hama's experience was in Vietnam, and his writing reflects that. This is why TV Tropes has an entire trope dedicated to why aquatic settings are boring... Comic book writers just don't have the knowledge or experience to portray the technical aspects of naval warfare in an exciting and accessible manner. Those writers that do, like Tom Clancy, are specialists who have made a lifelong study of the subject. Though I think a lot of people have justified the Flagg a couple of different ways: 1. It's not a "full time" part of G.I. Joe...but when G.I. Joe needs an aircraft carrier, it's the one they use. In this interpretation, Keel-Haul is more of an "honorary" Joe. (Especially since he outranked Hawk until the early 2000's!) Probably the most realistic/feasible interpretation if you accept the Flagg is supposed to be a full-size Nimitz-class carrier. 2. It actually IS in the proper scale, and is designed to be a "pocket carrier" that carries a limited number of (mostly VTOL) vehicles. If you look at the Flagg as more a carrier for Sky Hawks, Locusts, and Dragonflies it becomes much more feasible than carrying squadrons of Skystrikers and Conquests (and makes more sense for G.I. Joe as a whole). In this case it probably doesn't have a full carrier group supporting it, but rather a select few support/defense vessels, but given that they're up against an organization that doesn't have much of a navy themselves, that's not so bad. Last edited by Jmacq1; 02-22-2016 at 09:55 AM.. |
02-22-2016, 10:48 AM | #8 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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Cobra does have a large Navy--it just consists of submarines. No sense in having a large visible fleet of steel that can be tracked all around the world. Unless Destro comes up with a cloaking device. Now that would be something.
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02-22-2016, 12:00 PM | #9 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Athens Al
Posts: 2,741
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I actually try and balance out the navy, ground and air forces for both sides in my collection. Joe side has the TRU Boat painted as a 4 inch thunderwave, the TRU hovercraft with Whale stickers, devilfish ( I want multiples though), 3 25th SHARCs and 2 Night Specters on the way this week. Cobra has the TRU sub, the 25th classic moccasin and 5 Fangboats, two night landings... needs a Moray and maybe one day the small red boat that matches it, 2 sea rays. I feel like if I ever get all of that and a TTBP my sea forces will look pretty good.
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02-22-2016, 12:37 PM | #10 |
Sith/Jedi Hybrid
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 3,197
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They've got an aircraft carrier that is the largest playset ever released in the history of toys. I think that gives them a few points in the navy category. Plus a base that can be deployed in the middle of the ocean (Battle Platform). The WHALE is the all-time coolest vehicle (Navy/Marines?). Cobra has a bad ass hydrofoil AND air boat. I think the Joes and Cobras are well represented on the seas.
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