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02-23-2014, 01:41 PM | #1 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
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Since their reintroduction in 1982 as "A Real American Hero," G.I. Joe has been a predominant interest in my life. I'm not sure why, but I think it's a combination of the functional military realism, diverse science fiction technologies, interesting characters and unique vehicles and equipment. I grew up with the toys and comics and only caught several of the cartoon episodes when they were originally airing, but have gone back and caught up on what I missed out in my youth.
The brand has resurfaced since ARAH in a variety of alternative variations on the same theme: Sgt. Savage, Extreme, Valor vs. Venom, DD's Reinstated, Sigma 6, Rise Of Cobra and Renegades are some of the most prominent divergences from the 1982-1994 ARAH run, but they all still use some of the same (at least in name) characters from that time period. I think many of us would like to see a definitive G.I. Joe story culminating from taking the best bits of all these variations and turned into a solid, ongoing story arc that would stick - particularly in the toy aisle, which is where it all started anyway. There's already a vast amount of resources on the internet cataloguing and detailing the accessories made available through the G.I. Joe toy line, which makes it relatively easy for collectors to complete their collections or hunt down rare items through secondary market sources. But while the characters are continually expanded on and reimagined for alternative story lines, it seems like a lot of the time the equipment needed for these stories to happen sort of takes a back seat. What I'm interested in is the nuts and bolts of this equipment - the actual hard science that could make a laser rifle feasible or how the intermeshing rotors of the Mamba actually work. And even more than "how it works," what inventions and concepts could have been inspirational in the design process of the toys or from the R&D personnel that inhabit the unlit background of the G.I. Joe world. So I've been spending bits of my free time over the last month or so compiling information for a go-to list for anyone that might be interested in this type of pointless, obsessive information. I'm nowhere near completion at this point - probably close to the 10% mark really, but I'll keep hacking away at it and hopefully at some point in the future have a PDF file available for anyone interested. But before it gets to that point, I'm looking for help in the way of information and opinions from those who are into this form of recreation. I know there are threads here and on other sites that have already began digging in this direction, but they're more concerned with literal production vehicles, prototypes and concepts that were transposed into the arsenal of G.I. Joe, Cobra and countless other elements that reside in their world. And that can get a bit touchy when it gets down to a disagreement over technicalities. So what I'm getting down to is this: 1. I am looking for comprehensive websites that host a collection and in-depth analysis of basic and unusual military equipment as well as other unconventional technologies. I've found sites like this (submarine-related), this (unmanned tech) and this (tele-operated dune buggies), but I'm sure there are countless other sites that other members of this community might know about that don't come up in the searches I use. Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated. (I also use books in my research too! Titles of helpful books would also be appreciated!) 2. If you're so inclined to contribute whatever knowledge you have, even if it's just isolated to one individual vehicle or weapons system that captured your imagination and has driven you to dig deep into how it went from design to working production, then feel free to post your info and ideas on this thread or PM me if you want to discuss. 3. Detailed photos or accurately drawn or rendered pictures of these forerunners would also be helpful in assembling this speculative compilation. It's not just the vehicles and equipment from the toy lines I'm after either, no sirree. Look back through Marvel G.I. Joe issue #1; there's the Hydrofoil L.C.T. and some interesting unnamed Cobra propelled gliders that look like early C.L.A.W. concepts. Issue #6 has the R.T.V., a large traversable heavy transport vehicle that is air dropped in pieces and assembled in the field. The cartoons have their own unique equipment such as the M.A.S.S. Device and the Weather Dominator. These too will go under close scrutiny to explain how this technology could work, and what may have inspired their creation. Again, constructive input is very welcome and hopefully I'll have some rough samples ready for presentation soon.
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02-23-2014, 01:52 PM | #2 |
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02-23-2014, 05:16 PM | #3 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Just compiling everything into an Excel Spreadsheet year by year from the blueprints and additional information available into a workable list has proved to be pretty time consuming. It's a wonder that someone hasn't already done this.
Anyway, here's a sample of one the very rough write-ups I've done for the 1982 toy group: H.A.L. Faction: G.I. Joe Designation: XM/D-147L Type: Weapon, Field Artillery Function: Heavy Artillery Laser Dedicated Operator(s): Grand Slam Specifications: hydraulically stabilized self-leveling split-rail unsprung two-wheel chassis, 360º rotatable platform with elevator to 45º, diesel-powered 25kW 3-phase generator with systems override tank, C.R.T. (cathode ray tube) sight and location computer, radar scrambler and internal long-range guidance system Weapons Systems/Armaments: twin barrel 20kW electric chemical long-range multiburst laser cannon with replaceable barrels (30 hour cycles) and refrigerated inter-cooling radiator system; range of 600 miles Real-World Inspiration(s): M114A1 155mm Howitzer split trail chassis (1962) first produced in 1942 as the 155mm M1 Howitzer; Airborne Laser Lab technology started in the early 1970’s and developed over an eleven year period Comparison(s): The M114A1 split trail chassis is pretty similar to what the H.A.L. is mounted to and transported by, with a few modifications like the self-leveling forward support leg. The side-seated configuration of this weapon isn’t very conventional, as most field artillery weapons are not singly operated by one soldier and the immense recoil is directed backwards, as per Newton’s third law of motion. There are a few light anti-aircraft guns that are side operated but they aren’t nearly close enough in caliber, configuration or size to compare. Functional laser weapons like what was available to the G.I. Joe team in the real world don’t exist yet, but there are larger, more complicated designs that have been put to use as a weapons system prior to 1982. The Airborne Laser Lab H.E.L. (High Energy Laser) was a gas dynamic laser that used CO2 – N2 – H2O propellants and a 10.6 operating wavelength carried on a modified NKC-135 Stratotanker. The individual components came from a multitude of vendors: Pratt & Whitney Aircraft supplied the laser, Rocketdyne the combustor, Hughes the optical and pointing and tracking system, Perkin Elmer the dynamic tracking system with General Dynamic performing the system integration. During trials it successfully shot down several AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles and a single BQM-34A Firebee target drone. Notes: Numerical marking on the side of the cannon is T44; on the side of the C.R.T. sighting and locating computer is 453576; on the left side chassis is L-082558.KO Once I've gotten my formatting solid and have a fully catalogued listing of vehicles and equipment that span across the entire toy line and including most from the cartoon and comic series, I can go back and do some more digging. The comparisons I have now are pretty cursory, and most is what has already been fairly well-publicized, such as the MBT-70 for the MOBAT and the FMC XR311 & Cheetah for the VAMP. One of the other points of interest that I've wondered about is where the G.I. Joe team gets their technology. We know that Cobra primarily either steals their tech or is supplied through Destro's MARS Industries, but while the US military does have their own skunk works, the development process would be hindered through funding limitations and general bureaucracy. It is interesting to think that there are warehouses that store some unusual bits of tech, like the MH-60 stealth Black Hawks used for the raid on bin Laden's compound. Quote:
Why the Mamba works:
Intermeshing rotors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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02-23-2014, 05:41 PM | #4 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Midway, PA
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Here's another write-up for the R.T.V. which appeared in the Marvel ARAH series issues 6 & 7.
R.T.V. Faction: G.I Joe Designation: XM/D-3 Type: Vehicle, Transport Function: Rough Terrain Vehicle Dedicated Operator(s): n/a, but main crew compliment would be at least four Specifications: lightweight aluminum frame, plastic outer hull and interior console panels, rough terrain solid foam composite large diameter tires; additional information unavailable, but can be theorized: engine would be a heavily modified lightweight aluminum air-cooled diesel with direct-injection and turbo charger, computer controlled automatic transmission, 4-Ton hydraulic crane with “standalone” gasoline powered engine for R.T.V. assembly and P.T.O. connection to transmission for loading operations, 3-range transfer case and high-torque, limited slip differentials Weapons Systems/Armaments: 2 topside and 2 underside remote-controlled turret guns (unknown caliber) Real-World Inspiration(s): 1954 MA-31 L.C.R. (Landing Craft Retriever) constructed by the Letourneau Earthmover Company Comparison(s): Military history is full of designs and proposals that set their sights on expedience and portability. For this purpose, I have not been able to track down anything comparable to the R.T.V. Appearance-wise, however, the Letourneau-built MA-31 L.C.R. features several design elements that could have inspired the aesthetic form of the R.T.V. The large diameter tires (120 inches by 4 feet wide) of the L.C.R. are remarkably similar to the Joe team’s composite vehicle. The height, length and width are also congruent using the size of people in photos and drawings as a frame of reference. The similarities tend to end there; the L.C.R. was essentially a gantry crane on electrically driven wheels (each had its own electric motor powered by a diesel generator attached to the top of the superstructure) used to pick up disabled boats that were near the shore. Only one MA-31 was ever produced, though an L.C.R. Mark II was constructed (company unknown) - taller and shorter with smaller tires and looking like a section of framework from a large building. From the comic book, the R.T.V. is broken down into what appears to be seven main components, not including the tires and other smaller attachments. Designed to be air dropped into difficult to access locations, each main component is light enough to be lifted by a six man team, and the entire vehicle can be assembled in less than thirty minutes. The main cab is accessed through the rear underside by ladder, where there is a communications panel, weapons control station for the two topside and two lower gun turrets and a navigational console, as well as the driver’s seat and controls. There are also an unknown number of cameras on the outside of the R.T.V. that are displayed in monitors at the weapons station. An articulated crane is mounted between the cab and the cargo platform. The engine, transmission and transfer case are all mounted beneath the cab and cargo platform. The suspension is self-leveling with a wide range of motion, and the cab can be hydraulically raised on a scissor lift-like mechanism as a defensive posture. A versatile machine, however unlikely it might be that the total amount of technological gadgets crammed within would allow the R.T.V. to retain its “lightweight” classification. Notes: Originally featured in the Marvel comic series G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero issues 6 & 7
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02-23-2014, 07:28 PM | #5 |
Dreadnok Forefather
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Interesting write up on the reality of vehicles within the GI Joe universe. I know that Hasbro designs were able to view prototypes before they were released, sc-fi military toy brand design has unrealistic vehicles. My favorite vehicle from GI Joe is the Vamp (all versions including the Stinger), which is based upon an actual vehicle. The Lamborghini Cheetah, a four seater, four door all terrain personal vehicle. Of course the costs were too high for the US Military to use, but not for Hasbro to create one of the coolest looking vehicles. I think that a cross data base of GI Joe vehicles to real world vehicles would be a great idea. Looking forward to seeing more on this.
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02-23-2014, 07:58 PM | #6 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
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Quote:
Interesting write up on the reality of vehicles within the GI Joe universe. I know that Hasbro designs were able to view prototypes before they were released, sc-fi military toy brand design has unrealistic vehicles. My favorite vehicle from GI Joe is the Vamp (all versions including the Stinger), which is based upon an actual vehicle. The Lamborghini Cheetah, a four seater, four door all terrain personal vehicle. Of course the costs were too high for the US Military to use, but not for Hasbro to create one of the coolest looking vehicles. I think that a cross data base of GI Joe vehicles to real world vehicles would be a great idea. Looking forward to seeing more on this.
Which is another element that is important when considering what influenced what; the correct time frame. A lot of US military equipment has an extensive prototype trial period before they decide they want to order some to field test. So while the actual introduction of something like the HMMWV into the Army's inventory started around 1984, these were being designed, built and trialed several years before hand - why not give an elite unit like G.I. Joe the chance to put some of that to the test? I can imagine in the case of the VAMP that Clutch and some of the other original team with the skills to do so had been given an old XR311 or Cheetah and built it up to their own specs. But it seems as if some tech went the other way too; something like the Cobra CLAW at the time was virtually pure sci-fi, but now there are several real world jet wings developed by the private sector. It's all very interesting to me, and it's amazing to see how far back some of this technology can go.
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03-02-2014, 02:08 PM | #7 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
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Haven’t had much time to do any work on this project this week, so I’ll try to post some photos showing design similarities between some of the productions, prototypes and concepts of equipment that may have been used in the design of some of the vehicles used by G.I. Joe, Cobra and the other factions in their world.
First up is the 1964 GM Bison Turbine Truck concept. There’s not a lot of details regarding the actual gas-turbine engine used in this vehicle, but I’m primarily looking at the exterior design of this and I see a lot of the Rolling Thunder here, particularly in the forward cab. The Rolling Thunder used twin 16-cylinder turbo-injected engines according to the Impel card series. And if the military had decided to use the Bison as a platform for a missile launching system, it could have ended up looking similar to the Rolling Thunder. Although, another contender that came out way later is the R.O.C.C. The forward “tractor” component of the R.O.C.C. is more like the Bison, with a fifth-wheel that attaches to the trailer. So while there isn’t an actual military application I’ve found that would make this a little more directly-related, I feel the Bison is a strong contender for an inspirational ancestor to either the Rolling Thunder or the R.O.C.C. Another unlikely design that has roots the whole way back in World War II is the Excelsior Welbike made between 1942-1945. Used by British Paratroopers behind the lines in Europe, this collapsible motorcycle was easily transportable. As absurd as it looks in the card art, the G.I. Joe A.T.V. could have been used by Special Forces, although they generally lean towards something a little more fear-inspiring and little less laughable. Unsure which cartoon episode this appeared in, and I think there were several different types that Cobra had through the years. The Revenge of Cobra 5-part series had one similar, and I recall one crashing into the U.S.S. Flagg and them both sinking. This is an image I found online: And here’s an image for a concept I found that, while the Cobra heli-carrier seems marginally ridiculous, could be possibly applied to a dirigible-based craft like this and seem more plausible. Interestingly, while this is a current news article of what’s in development at the moment, Bruce Dickinson (of Iron Maiden) is funding this airship. Not exactly a comparable airship, but once perfected, I think that the next step would be mounting a flat surface to land aircraft on the top side. And while not equipment, I think this photo of Fur Dixon (of the Cramps) looks a lot like Zarana.
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03-02-2014, 03:01 PM | #8 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
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The Armadillo is a tank that may have drawn inspiration from several light tanks.
The most likely from the various tanks I’ve combed through appears to be the British Archer. Produced back as long ago as 1944, this tank continued to see service with British troops through the 1950’s and was then passed down to Egyptian and other Middle Eastern forces. The Armadillo would not have been built on this chassis since it’s too antiquated and too large by comparison – although this can be argued since the vehicles as toys were typically scaled down further than the figures (the U.S.S. Flagg being the most drastically over-scaled). However, the configuration of the main body and turret seem the fairly similar. Several others such as the British FV107 Scimitar (a descendant of the Archer), the German Wiesel Armored Weapons Carrier and even the M50 Ontos However, size-wise I think that this little bugger would also be an appropriate contender. I have no idea what this is called and can’t find any history on it. This is actually a photo taken in Tikrit, Iraq in 2004-2005 when I was there as a civilian contractor. It’s tiny.
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03-02-2014, 03:15 PM | #9 |
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Last one looks like an Italian L3/(33 or 35) series tankette.
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03-02-2014, 03:18 PM | #10 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
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Thanks! Like I said, it's ridiculously small. I can't imagine climbing into this metal box on tracks in the desert heat.
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