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07-05-2012, 06:00 PM | #1 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,038
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I attended Kirk Bozigian's Panel at the Convention and started to do a little critical thinking of how to keep some characters while retiring most to do a refresh as he suggested the line may need. Kirk was the Hasbro marketing rep that was responsible for bringing us GI Joe as we know the line from 1982; he has since retired and speaks his mind. I apologize for the wall of text, in advance.
My proposal basically retires most of the current cast since many are Vietnam, Grenada or Desert Storm veterans (or at least the canon that many of us cling too) and keeps a few around for continuity. He also proposed a tech refresh since even in 1982, GI Joe was on the cutting edge. The POC / ROC lines kept us at current tech except for some tech from ROC:Movie that most of us rejected. I would also take this time to fix organizational problems within GI Joe that have led to who knows how many discussions. He also proposed wiping out Cobra as we know them and go after new threats. How is it that the premiere US fighting force is still 25 years later battling an organization started as a pyramid scheme by a disgruntled, used car salesman. So who would I keep around and in what role? Leadership: Someone commissioned in 1995 would have recently been promoted to O-5 at least in the US Army. So I used that as a starting point. Current First Sergeants / Master Sergeants (Team Sergeants) with a Special Forces MOS would have enlisted around 1998. What does that mean: Basically everyone on the roster prior to 1986 retires. An enlistee in 1982 would be facing mandatory retirement. Grid-Iron could potentially be a General Officer and commander (not that I am a fan of him...) Potential Sergeant's Major or former members kept on as training cadre (E-4 NLT 1986 and solid combat arms background; however many current SGMs enlisted after Desert Storm) 1. Sci-Fi, E-4, Infantry in 1986 2. Outback, E-5, Infantry in 1987 3. Sneak Peek, E-5, Infantry in 1987 4. Hardball, E-4, Infantry in 1988 (if you ignore is death in the Devil's Due comics) 5. Hit&Run, E-4, Infantry in 1988 6. Muskrat, E-4, Infantry in 1988 7. Spearhead, E-4, Infantry in 1988 8. Downtown, E-4, Infantry in 1989 (Special Operations secondary) 9. Ambush, E-3, Infantry in 1990 10. Freefall, E-5, Infantry in 1990 11. Cloudburst, E-4 Infantry in 1991 12. Banzai, E-4, "Commando" in 1993 13. Long Arm, E-4, "first strike specialist" in 1993 14. Barrel Roll, E-4 "sniper / HALO" in 2003 15. Kamakura, E-5 Infantry in 2003 Potential Senior NCOs would be any new character after 2002 if introduced as an E-5 or lower. 1. Hard Drive and/or Hi-Tech - potentially senior communications NCOs for the team (could be active on select missions) 2. Bombstrike - Senior Fires NCO (probably still is active not just a desk jockey) 3. Cannonball - active driver / Infantry (E-4 in 2005; likely an E-7 by now - driver MOSs prmote slower than combat arms) 4. Tiger Claw - E4 Infantry, SE apprentice in 2005 5. Red Zone - E4 "urban warfare" in 2006 6. Rook - E4 "linguist/interrogator" in 2006 (probably in a CI role) Senior Staff Specialists 1. Medic or perhaps Doctor - Lifeline (the second lifeline), E-5 medic in 2002 2. Medic or perhaps Doctor - Sideswipe, E-5 medic in 2002 3. Barrage - 2005 as a MAJ potentially makes him a LTC now and perhaps the senior fires officer or XO Other Snake Eyes - Stays on as a contractor as the Silent Master for advanced training and assistance (He is getting old but is probably extremely fit and capable) Flint - stays on as a GS civilian perhaps as a deputy commander (He would have retired as a CW5 with a lot of specialized experience and many SOF units have retirees in specialized roles for continuity of routine operations; his file cards and comic background due not put a defined timeline on his career such as Stalker, Hawk, etc...) Fresh faces for most of the team. Get the ranks right for the positions. Organization: Commander is an O-6/O-7 Deputy is a GS or O-5/O-6 CSM Senior Enlisted Advisor vice Duke's role as 1SG Establish more than one squadron / battalion comparable to special forces units. Do not worry about random staffers being named and defined as core characters, green shirts fill in as needed. The focus is on the warrior or skill specialist as we have been for 30 years. Named Joes are E-5, E-6, E-7, E-8, O-3, O-4 E-4s only in support roles like mechanic, clerks, armorers, supply, etc... (probably only 1-2 named for the sake of story lines) No environmental specialists as a skill - they are Infantry, Special Forces, tankers, etc... with advanced training Keep and expand the other services; more SEALs, boat operators, spec op Marines, STS, etc... Include an Air wing of aircraft - Ospreys (replace Tomahawk), C17 (vice C130), MH-60s, create a variant of the AH-64 to replace the Dragonfly. Create small aircraft to fit the role of the jet pack, gliders, etc... Increase female characters - big Army is increasing their roles in combat units, SOF is putting them on female engagement teams, they are in MISO (formerly PSYOP). Technology - look at what is in development. I know we hated nano tech, pulse weapons, etc... but they are in the works. Have not given much consideration to a new enemy although something close to AQ and narco-terrorists would be a good start. Thoughts? Opinions? |
07-05-2012, 06:16 PM | #2 |
o-ring or nothing
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the 1980's
Posts: 5,697
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That sounds a bit too technical and realistic to me. I never really considered the backstories for the characters as written in stone anyway. Like Snake Eyes, Stalker and Storm Shadow serving together in Viet Nam. That could just as easily have been Desert Storm, or some fictional war. I never really followed the ranking system either. Since the Joes were made up of so many different factions, it makes sense for them to have their own chain of command, independant of the various branches of military.
I'm all for the retiring of characters though. Pretty much nobody made in 1987 or afterwards should ever be made into a figure again. Just pick a few select characters from 82-86, and then surround them with all new characters. |
07-05-2012, 06:33 PM | #3 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Wow that is pretty intense but I also see as neccessary. I love all of it. So who is CO? A 55 year old general would have been commissioned in 1981-82. So pretty much any officer we've had except Hawk, Keel-Haul, Colton, Flagg III, and Claymore since he's also a Vietnam vet.
Steeled? Falcon? Courage? Lt. Stone (extreme) ? Grid -Iron? Maj Storm? MAJ Barrage? It should be an existing character to keep the continuity. The one thing I always loved was new characters. Can you imagine how it would have been had guys retired and newer characters could have made the spot light? All the while keeping with current events? Still since the Joe's wouldn't really fight real terrorists the timeliness could be stretched to keep characters around. Maybe Cobra could be good for a while as pmcs?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-05-2012, 07:37 PM | #4 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Y-Town, Michigan
Posts: 11,745
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I like it, and as much as I like characters like Clutch & Grand Slam, maybe it is time for them to retire.
I think it would be cool if Stalker got promoted to General and replaced Hawk. Last edited by Beckley; 07-05-2012 at 07:42 PM.. |
07-05-2012, 11:03 PM | #5 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,357
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What about IDW? Everything Kirk said was based on the concept that we are still hanging onto Marvel's comics and Sunbow's cartoon story lines.
IDW has been writting the GI Joe comics for 3 years now and have made all the characters current and the tech work. They made M.A.S.S. look like a real feasable thing. They made Snake Eyes look like a real badass Afghanistan war vet. They even made a new back story for Zartan that kicked ass.
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07-05-2012, 11:13 PM | #6 |
The Man You Know & Love
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In The Middle of a Late Night Crew Orgy
Posts: 28,211
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Yeah, I don't think they should retire anyone. Just update and make them young again. Reboot. Redo. Start from scratch with the same folks. Like what they do to Spiderman, Batman, Superman, etc...
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07-05-2012, 11:17 PM | #7 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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There isn't really a need to completely re-create the cast.
The same characters (in general) can work, its just the time point and stories that need to be updated. Look at what IDW did. Most of the characters are still the same as they were, with some updated in personality or appearance t obetter match a modern military group. Worked quite well. That's not to say that we shouldn't start introducing more new characters. We get about 60 figures per year (except when things get delayed). IMHO 10-15 of those should be original characters all the time. Like Helix, or the Joe trooper, or....well that's it recently really, which is the problem. Look at any of the fan fictions on this site, the same core cast of characters with new ones thrown in to fit the spaces that don't currently have people in them. But the stories are all completely original. That's more what we need IMHO. |
07-05-2012, 11:21 PM | #8 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I agree I like a lot of what IDW is doing, but they do not have a toy line to match. but cobra destroying the Golden Triangle so they can corner the market on illicit drug trade is brilliant.
However the rank and structure of IDW joe is even more confusing, especially with all the deaths. Too many random deaths of unknown named characters, who are impossible to tell who is who. Not to mention some known characters look nothing like they use to, only to die two panels later. Plus I like Duke as a Colonel as he always was portrayed as a leader, but E-7 to O-6 is ridiculous. I would rather he got a battlefield commission and then worked his way up.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-05-2012, 11:34 PM | #9 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 46,198
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Quote:
What about IDW? Everything Kirk said was based on the concept that we are still hanging onto Marvel's comics and Sunbow's cartoon story lines.
IDW has been writting the GI Joe comics for 3 years now and have made all the characters current and the tech work. They made M.A.S.S. look like a real feasable thing. They made Snake Eyes look like a real badass Afghanistan war vet. They even made a new back story for Zartan that kicked ass. |
07-05-2012, 11:54 PM | #10 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,357
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If Hasbro really wanted GI Joe to take off it would. Guys like Kirk Bozigian consult to them for God's sake! They have all the trade secrets on what to do to make it work. IDW has done a damn good job of modernizing the comic characters. Resolute was absolutely amazing! Cartoon Network funded that shit! They could of made an entire series based on Resolute. Maybe tone down the death and stuff for the kids but it could of worked far better than Renegades did.
The only reason GI Joe is not where we want it to be is cause Hasbro's senior management dossent care for it. Its just another line they own, no big deal, not as big as Transformers or Star Wars is. Someday they might get thier act together and come back strong but till then we gotta sit and wait.
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