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06-07-2009, 08:24 PM | #6681 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 658
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First, thank you for the recognition of my suggestions! I know how daunting a project like this can be, so I'm glad I could help.
You did a lot of cool things that I wasn't expecting, but was pleasantly surprised by. The only section that doesn't have anyone assigned it is the Support Platoon, but having Cutter as the S4 is good enough. The version of the list I sent you had only SEAL/SF members in the Covering Platoon. But that isn't true to the spirit of the from "all branches" mentality of GI Joe. Mixing that platoon up with Recon Marines and STS guys really works well. I really like the External Contractor Cell (and the power couple you snuck in). If you could explain a bit more about their purpose and responsibilities, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, the change you made for Flint was one I didn't care for initially (until after you broke it down to me), and is one I think you should expand on here. I especially like the change you made to Gung Ho. I think that sneaky stuff suits him better than the hard charging. We discussed the change in Steeler, but I just wanted to say here how cool it is to have him running shop with Short Fuze and Zap. I'm happy to see some other SF operators coming from something other than a Weapons specialty (Tollbooth). I was wondering who the final member would be, and Red Dog is one I really think you can do something fantastic with. The only character I'm not sold on is Charbroil (I'm looking forward to how you reconcile that name to his new position), but I'm sure you'll make it work. Set this chart in stone, bro. I like all of it. Now can you focus on the art and the cards. Last edited by Master Thespian; 06-07-2009 at 08:29 PM.. |
06-07-2009, 08:30 PM | #6682 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Thing is, he never did wear the "original 13 sweater" (that was a mistake on my part when I made my first version of Steeler). He wore a jacket, which is what I've tried to recreate here by dressing him in the PCU (Protective Combat Uniform). I can understand when you say it doesn't look "military," but trust me, it's actual military-issued gear he's wearing.
Maybe if make him have the green sweater visible under the jacket? Looks like he's wearing a sweater under it already.
__________________
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06-07-2009, 08:35 PM | #6683 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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So couple pics for tonight:
The on-base emergency services building and vehicles. Fire truck, fire command truck and an ambulance. Used for on-base emegencies. It's located near the training area, figured with mostly concrete buildings, if there's going to be an accident and a fire, it'd be in the training and obstacle course area. And just an overall showing the start of the obstacle course area. Got a couple of climbing towers to add in and this part will be pretty much finished.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-07-2009, 08:53 PM | #6684 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,238
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Quote:
Below the battalion level, reconnaissance duties in a ranger company are simply assigned to select rifle platoon members or to the company's snipers as needed.
Having a dedicated recon platoon would only thin out the already limited pool of resources and dilute the focus of the organization further which is, for my version of GI Joe, expeditionary counterterrorism & armed interdiction. I don't want to fall into the trap of making GI Joe a do-everything team. This could lead to a very scattered force structure with no immedaately defined sense of purpose and unmanageable and impossibly disparate logistics needs. Stuff that falls outside of those operational parameters, like dedicated long-range reconnaissance or full-spectrum intelligence operations, JSOC has other units that are better equipped and better staffed for those puposes. Keep in mind (and I'm sure you're already familiar) that "reconnaissance teams of the ranger regiment do not replace (or perform the same reconnaissance tasks associated with) long-range reconnaissance patrol (LRRP) units or long-range surveillance units (LRSUs) that may be organic to the corps or division. These units are organized, trained, and equipped for long-term passive surveillance and reconnaissance in enemy territory. The ranger reconnaissance teams are trained and organized to support the immediate intelligence-gathering needs of the ranger force commander. They are not to act as a human intelligence (HUMINT) collection asset for other operational headquarters." |
06-07-2009, 09:19 PM | #6685 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I'm loving the new additions and moves to the Org. Flint as a W-3 fits perfectly in a SF real world company HQ element. This brings to out his more tactical leadership abilities he's always protrayed. Plus if the chips are down he can jump in a helicopter and bail you out!
My understanding of a SF Company is this way. A W-3 is basically a 0-3 in the fact that he would be a tactical expert and involved in planning. Still he gets to do this as part of the S-3 unit (Operations) Jane and Joe very cool. You figure in today's terrorist environment there are people working in country gathering info the whole time. When it's time for the Joes to show up someone should be there to show them around. I personally like this version of Steeler better. As well as Alpine. Airtight and Hit& run are good. Didn't you just do a perfectly perfect Hit & Run? I also Totally agree about the MSPF analogy. This really is the only real world example of a quick reaction force with avaition elements. Of course the Joes would be even quicker! Only thing I would change is make Gung-Ho an E-8 and have him switch places with Shipwreck. We all saw that episode and Shipwreck is a terrible leader. Gung-Ho is just my favorite. An E-8 conflicts with Stalker but that covering force is carrying a lot of weight. Maybe Stalker should be a E-9 too? At any rate this is just about perfect. you could fine tune it forever, and never be done. Just take this and Roll with it. |
06-07-2009, 10:16 PM | #6686 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Here's an an example that ties into what we've been discussing lately about JHSVs like the HSV-2 Swift. The crew requirements for a JHSV call for about 40 personnel. The military crew consists of around 5 officers and 32 enlisted sailors and/or marines. That leaves three "mystery" crew spots. But that's no great mystery actually. The final three positions on the crew are filled by technicians from INCAT (the company who made the HSV-2 Swift). They're civilians and not active military, but seeing as how they're actually the people who built the damn thing, their expertise and familiarity with the HSV-2's specific systems are above and beyond that of even the best engineers the Navy and Coast Guard can supply (who have to worry about other things than just the pure technical details of the ship's systems). The DoD has approved the creation of actual contractor positions with very specific restrictions regarding what they can do while assigned with units who might potentially engage in battle. It's all very complicated (international law and ROE and all that stuff refusing to play nice with each other), but it basically breaks down to this: contractors killing enemy combatants in self defense = okay; contractors killing enemy combatants for any other reason = not okay. Anyway, I'm using the external support contractor position as a "loophole" of sorts for certain personnel to be able to work with the GI Joe team, contravening any circumstances that might be preventing them from signing up for the military. In the case of Joe Colton, it's a way for him to keep working with the Joe team (even if it's just in an advisory capacity) despite having reached the age (62) and/or time-in-active-duty-service (30 years) for mandatory retirement (I see him as being in his early to mid-60s). GI Jane is in there for her technical expertise (I'll probably re-work her as an information-centric warfare consultant, make her more 21st century). It's a way for Mercer to work with the Joe team despite having a horrendous criminal record (there's no way any of the services would take in a guy with a history of working with a company -- Cobra --with ties to domestic and foreign terrorism). As for Snake-Eyes, a guy who suffered his injuries (that came with a permanent and significant disability) would have been discharged on medical grounds and he would have been disqualified from further military service. But the Joe team could still use his skills, hence the external support contractor loophole. As for the rules of engagement and international law preventing nominative civilians (but hardcore professional warriors) like Snake-Eyes and Mercer from engaging in combat except in self-defense, well, between Hawk, Colton, Psyche-Out, and Chuckles, they can probably come up with all sorts of creative reasons for why Snake-Eyes or Mercer just happened to be in a position to engage in combat "in self-defense." Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanksmasher
Keep in mind (and I'm sure you're already familiar) that "reconnaissance teams of the ranger regiment do not replace (or perform the same reconnaissance tasks associated with) long-range reconnaissance patrol (LRRP) units or long-range surveillance units (LRSUs) that may be organic to the corps or division. These units are organized, trained, and equipped for long-term passive surveillance and reconnaissance in enemy territory. The ranger reconnaissance teams are trained and organized to support the immediate intelligence-gathering needs of the ranger force commander. They are not to act as a human intelligence (HUMINT) collection asset for other operational headquarters."
Today 05:35 PM I think we're talking past each other a bit here because I've been remiss in explaining my "idea" of the Joe team. I don't see GI Joe as a regiment sized organization with full organic combat support and combat service support like the 75th Ranger Regiment or the 160th SOAR. The way I've drawn it up, it's a small joint special task force with a strict operational mandate and just as strict manpower requirements operating under JSOC. They perform direct action and kinetic engagement. What few organic CS and CSS assets they have are for the specific purpose of supporting interdiction and kinetic engagement. All their combat personnel are qualified to varying degrees in the conduct of reconnaissance & surveillance, but even then, all conduct of recon and surveillance are within a very limited tactical scope that doesn't require TOE designation as reconnaissance personnel If they need dedicated and full-spectrum ISTAR, JSOC will provide it for them using the other assets JSOC has at its disposal (the same way JSOC uses ISA to perform dedicated actionable intelligence collection for DEVGRU units, for example) Again, I find myself going back to the example of the MSPF as an analogous unit. The MSPF is, at its core, a two platoon direct action/expeditionary interdiction organization, somewhere between the size of a reinforced company and a reduced battalion. Between the two rifle platoons and the headquarters-assigned snipers, they already have the resources to conduct all the battlefield reconnaissance and surveillance necessary to fulfill their mandate without the need for full-time dedicated surveillance units. If they do need dedicated long-range surveillance and recon, the necessary assests are temporarily attached to the MSPF's support element. I can see the same thing happening with my take on GI Joe. They only ever need limited tactical recon given the very specific scope of their missions, and they already have the personnel available to do that, and as any infantry soldier knows, tactical recon is already an implicit element of a rifleman's normal course of duties. My point being, I don't think a full-time recce platoon is a requirement for the Joe team to fulfill its mandate as an airmobile CT unit. If Hawk needs full-spectrum recon, JSOC can provide it on a temporary, as-needs-call-for-it basis. Regardless, I appreciate your input and it's made me look at the work from a different perspective, and that's always a good thing. If I do decide to expand the Joe team and its mission profile in future editions of the reference bible, I'll be sure to add dedicated recon elements. Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I also Totally agree about the MSPF analogy. This really is the only real world example of a quick reaction force with avaition elements. Of course the Joes would be even quicker!
Last edited by zuludelta; 06-07-2009 at 10:59 PM.. Reason: edited for spelling and clarity |
06-07-2009, 10:21 PM | #6687 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
So couple pics for tonight:
The on-base emergency services building and vehicles. Fire truck, fire command truck and an ambulance. Used for on-base emegencies. It's located near the training area, figured with mostly concrete buildings, if there's going to be an accident and a fire, it'd be in the training and obstacle course area. And just an overall showing the start of the obstacle course area. Got a couple of climbing towers to add in and this part will be pretty much finished. Is that Brawn, Inferno and Optimus Prime? |
06-07-2009, 10:36 PM | #6688 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Their being civilians also allows the Joe team to have a domestic presence. As we all know, the constitution prevents the federal military from conducting operations on domestic soil (and rightly so). Joe and Jane and Snake-Eyes and Mercer give the Joe team a way to directly deal with domestic threats that impinge on the Joe team's foreign missions, instead of going through the process of liaising with the FBI or Homeland Security.
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06-07-2009, 10:36 PM | #6689 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
So I added another climbing tower that I found on the 3D Warehouse, this isn't the one I was originally going to use, that one will be added tomorrow. So here's some close-ups of the obstacle courses. I found 'em on the 3D Warehouse and thought they looked cool. There's another one I'm not sure if I'll add or not.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-07-2009, 11:30 PM | #6690 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
Their being civilians also allows the Joe team to have a domestic presence. As we all know, the constitution prevents the federal military from conducting operations on domestic soil (and rightly so). Joe and Jane and Snake-Eyes and Mercer give the Joe team a way to directly deal with domestic threats that impinge on the Joe team's foreign missions, instead of going through the process of liaising with the FBI or Homeland Security.
Your making me wonder if the real GIJoe would be more like the External Contractor Cell than anything else....Nah! But it is a very cool place to stick Ninjas, and BF2000, Matt Trakker, Gears, Sgt Slaughter the Fridge. Well they could definitely represent a real life Delta Force Team. Although you moved Lowlight as a STS (Very Cool) My vision of the Joes Delta Operators: Barrel Roll, Snake-Eyes, Lowlight, Mercer, Kamakura, Mace, Shockwave, Faces under Bulletproof or Surefire. BUT Might as well add Lt Stone, movie Ripcord, Red Dog, Hollow-Point and Action Man to that list as an over the top group of Super heros. Long-Range seems like a perfect driver sniper as well. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 06-07-2009 at 11:36 PM.. |
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