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02-21-2010, 01:40 AM | #11731 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Just going by the original filecard, it seems like Flint isn't trained as an SF warrant officer (MOS 180A). He's a rotary wing pilot warrant officer (MOS 153A) who happens to have been previously qualified as a MOS 11B and MOS 18(B?). This opens up the far-fetched (but nonetheless intriguing) idea that maybe he's qualified as a 160th SOAR (Night Stalkers) aviator. That's a Special Operations hat trick... he'd have been trained in three of the major combatant components of US Army Special Operations Command: Rangers, Green Berets, and Night Stalkers. Alternatively, I don't think there's anything that explicitly prevents an SF warrant officer (if that's what Flint indeed is) from registering for and completing a rotary wing aircraft pilot qualification course on a conditional basis. He just doesn't get any credit for it as far as being assigned an ASI in his personnel records (nor would it count towards any professional advancement requirements). Last edited by zuludelta; 02-21-2010 at 02:20 AM.. |
02-21-2010, 04:50 AM | #11732 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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Quote:
What What What?! I bought the Duke Covert op guy after GIJoe shuts down but that's BS, (And not the kind you get after undergrad.) Quote:
A soldier can move from Aviation to SF, but not from SF to Aviation. Just like his original rank of E-6, Hama just didn't do his research and understand how this process worked. What's possible is that he went into the Army under a Flight Contract and was sent to Flight Warrant Officer's School upon successful completion of his basic training. Given his level of education and fitness, a slot like that is not unheard of. He then went through Flight Warrant Officer School, and then applied for SF. So he could have been a Junior Warrant Officer when he went through selection.
This could explain how Flint may be younger than a typical CW-3, with 6years of college under his belt. But then is he a pilot or a SF Warrant Officer? I would say he is, but if there is a problem with going to Flight Warrant Officer School before Q course? Quote:
I think using Flint as a SF WO is a great idea, but according to the file card he went to Flight WO School after SF school so his training as a WO was geared toward flying not toward being an XO for SF, even though he is SF qualified. I also think it's possible that he was in Nam considering the following statement: Flint "personally led a half dozen rescue missions in hostile terriorties that for obvious reasons were never publicized let alone admitted to." So he's obviously been in combat and he's obvisously led covert/clandestine operations (perhaps in Laos or Cambodia) and he's had tons of training. Sounds like the perfect SOG One-Zero to me. Maybe after college he went to fight the war in Vietnam because he felt it was important and he wasn't feeling challenged in academia, which may explain why he didn't become an officer. Maybe he wanted to experience something outside of his class and level of education. To fight alongside the common GI. To be a real Joe.
I see this too, but don't like it. He seemed always too young. |
02-21-2010, 08:43 AM | #11733 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
Just because someone goes to a good school, doesn't mean they automatically want to be an officer. Maybe Flint had something to prove to himself.
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02-21-2010, 09:57 AM | #11734 |
Hog Driver
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But he can't be that young if his true rank is CW3. He's got more than just college under his belt. He's got BIT, AIT, Airborne, Ranger School, and SF training--all of which he undertook during the 8-9 years it took him to become an E-6 and then over a year's worth of WOFT, plus another two years to make CW2, and another 6 years to make CW3. Flint has gotta be in his late thirties. However, if he was in Nam he would have been promoted faster and the average time to move from W1 to CW3 were less than they are now. Heck if Mainframe caught the tail end of the war, I don't see how Flint would have missed it.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 02-21-2010 at 10:02 AM.. |
02-21-2010, 02:04 PM | #11735 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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I can't disagree with you Tank, for exactly those reasons. The time it takes to get to CW-3 would have put him at the tail end of the War. Both he and Hawk should have been in Vietnam.
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02-21-2010, 03:11 PM | #11736 |
Crimson Guard
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Quote:
I knew a Chaplain once who was SF qualified. He went to Duke, after which he enlisted in the Army, went Infantry, and then went through SF selection. He was an 18B, and then decided to become a Chaplain.
Just because someone goes to a good school, doesn't mean they automatically want to be an officer. Maybe Flint had something to prove to himself. I'd think someone like that would want a more "prestigious" rank. |
02-21-2010, 04:10 PM | #11737 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Not necessarily. It all depends on how Warrants are perceived and how Flint would be perceived. If they're seen as technical experts that even higher ranks rely on, that could be more prestigious then just a higher rank.
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02-21-2010, 08:28 PM | #11738 |
#voteblackjack
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I was searching for Tank's combat canine tracking whatever, I couldn't remember what it was, and came across this in my search.
Provost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provost_(military_police) What is Chuckles, who is a CID agent, last name? Provost.
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02-21-2010, 09:22 PM | #11739 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
Zulu and Tanksmasher are totally right about Flint's file cards, it says "Flight Warrant Officer School". No argument from me about what it actually says. My contention is that it also ACTUALLY says he's an E-6 Warrant Officer, so all their ducks aren't in a row to begin with, if you'll pardon the expression. SF, as branch, is odd. Because people have to try out for it later in their career, it's not a branch that people transfer out of. Once they're in SF, they stay SF. Most of those guys work so hard to get there, it would seem crazy to leave. Plus, the teams are like family - there's a lot of peer preasure to stay. On top of that, it really is the coolest job in the Army, and most of the time USSOC wouldn't approve/allow the branch transfer. Because in order to get a Branch Transfer, you have to be released from your current branch, and accepted by the branch to which you're applying. On top of all this, "Helicopter Pilot" is Flint's Secondary Military Specialty. So if his most recent branch assignment were as an Army Aviator, his primary specialty would be Aviation/Pilot. But as it stands, the fact that his primary is Infantry (Which is what most SF guys were in 'Nam prior to SF being recognised as it's own branch; it was sort of like the Cavalry was to Armor - unofficially seperate, elite and special, but no officially any different). Additionally, Flint's Beret really tells the story. He's a Green Beret; he's not meant to primarily be a pilot. In the original ARAH O-Ring run (82-97), he's only listed as a Helicopter Pilot in 2 of 5 file cards... and it's always secondary. So here's how I see Flint: Went to a great school (Ivy or Ivy Caliber) and got a Rhodes Scholarship. He probably came from class and money, but during his education he became disallusioned with the uppercrust and wanted a real challenge. Maybe he was a patriot and wanted to prove his abilities and toughness. Whatever the motivation, something just clicks and he realizes that he wants more out of life than an uppercrust existence of privledge and stock options. He wants to help people, serve his country, and get his hands dirty. ... so he enlists in the Infantry and does very well: Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, Pathfinder, etc. And he makes E-6 quickly because with his education they would have easily started him as a Spec-4. I'm not conviced that the references to rescueing POW's means he was in 'Nam; it could have been referencing the alleged Black Ops missions in the 80's to rescue POW's in Cambodia and Laos who had been left behind. So then Flint applies for the Warrant Officer Flight Program. It's a tough course, and very challenging. But he finds that he really prefers being on the ground, and so, as a Warrant Officer, he applies for SF selection. He passes and is accepted as into the 18A Program. From there he goes on to HALO, etc. That's just how I make sense of it. Like I said, Zulu and Tanksmasher are both making strong points about what the filecard actually says. My point is that it doesn't really work that way, and to be honest, it didn't really work that way in '86 either. But again, it's just one man's opinion.
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02-21-2010, 09:28 PM | #11740 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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I just noticed something with all this talk about Flint. He's basically Wild Bill v2: a spec ops-capable ground-pounder who eventually decides he wants to become a helicopter pilot.
Makes me wonder if Hama viewed Flint primarily as a pilot, at least initially in the writing process. |
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