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02-21-2010, 01:53 AM | #51 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lafayette La
Posts: 8,741
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Quote:
Calm down, Cajun.
You're forgetting the Marine Corps. They consider themselves a "Special Operations/Quick Reaction Force" and they have their own small carriers and stateside bases. Heck, Stateside bases? Everybody has one. Delta Force has one? Every Special Ops unit has one. Obviously things work differently in Joeverse. Ninjas come back from the dead in Joeverse. That's not the issue. The question is about how plausible these made up qualifications are. Some are, and some aren't. But you're right, whatever you want to do with your toys is your business. I could care less what you do with them; that's not what this discussion is about. Your last point is just worthless. Because if it's not actually Ranger School at Ft. Benning, no soldier is going to call themselves a Ranger. There are a lot of very good Infantrymen in some very though units who don't have Ranger Tabs, and those guys wouldn't dare call themselves a Ranger. Marines have some similar training, but we don't call them "Rangers". We call them Marines. Words have value and names have meaning. I'm not forgetting the Marines. You can't forget the Marines. Marines won't let you forget them. They remind you they're Marines every chance they get. Which is why I like reminding them their paycheck is signed by the Navy. They don't have the carrier, they're just along for the ride. I said they had to have both, a dedicated State-Side base AND a dedicated Aircraft Carrier, not either/or. And don't say the Navy. The Navy is not a spec ops unit. Spec Ops don't have 300,000+ personnel enrollment. Rangers do not have a base and their own aircraft carrier. Neither does Delta Force, SEAL, Force Recon, nor anyone else. That is a HUGE privilege granted to the JOE team that is not present (nor possibly even feasible) in our reality. If the JOEs receive that kind of boon, maintaining some sort of priority enrollment or the right to completely commandeer various special warfare schools doesn't seem so big. That is more what I meant in my previous post. JOEs don't need their own Ranger school when they can just use the existing one and staff it with their own people. Why reinvent the wheel when you can just borrow one? Thus what I said before, "if it looks like Ranger school......." Another divergence, the JOEs just seem to refer to themselves as JOEs, even though their ranks are culled from all fields of sevice. Leatherneck and Gung-Ho seem to call themselves JOEs and not Marines. In my opinion if you can convince a Marine to call himself something other than a Marine then you must have a very good indoctrination program. Sorry, but nothing is that sacred. How many frauds have claimed to be Medal of honor winners? There is a reason the Stolen Valor Act makes it a Federal offense to claim unreceived military awards. Just the fact that the Stolen Valor act had to be implemented means something is very wrong with folks and their own integrity. I have met many men who have claimed some form of spec ops status but I found their stories highly suspect. No proof one way or the other, but I would definitely catch a whiff of something now and then. I think our main difference is you are arguing that the cards are simply wrong, and I am arguing how they could be right considering the divergences in the JOEverse. |
02-21-2010, 06:48 AM | #52 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
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Quote:
Something like 50% of Delta Force isn't Special Forces Qualified... does that mean they're not as good as the other half that does have SF Tabs?
I'm from the UK, and here special forces is a collective term that means all the (for want of a better word ) special forces, e.g. SAS, SBS, Delta, SEALs, etc., etc. I'll have to consciously remember that when reading this and the filecards thread |
02-21-2010, 10:07 PM | #53 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Medina, OH
Posts: 506
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Quote:
Interesting, "Special Forces" is a qualification/course that has to be passed (is the "Special Forces" unit the Green Berets?).
I'm from the UK, and here special forces is a collective term that means all the (for want of a better word ) special forces, e.g. SAS, SBS, Delta, SEALs, etc., etc. I'll have to consciously remember that when reading this and the filecards thread I think Falcon is the only Joe with the specialty of Green Beret, although Dukes filecard text lists him as Special Forces.
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Running from explosions |
02-21-2010, 10:17 PM | #54 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
The file card thread has huge lists on that topic alone. Figureing out which Joes are SF/Green Berets is a subject of much discussion over there.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
02-21-2010, 10:31 PM | #55 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Quote:
Sorry, if I'm a bit scrappy. Deadhorse, Alaska with 40mph winds and sub-zero temperatures is not a fun place to hang out, and I'm getting a bit cabin feverish.
I'm not forgetting the Marines. You can't forget the Marines. Marines won't let you forget them. They remind you they're Marines every chance they get. Which is why I like reminding them their paycheck is signed by the Navy. They don't have the carrier, they're just along for the ride. I said they had to have both, a dedicated State-Side base AND a dedicated Aircraft Carrier, not either/or. And don't say the Navy. The Navy is not a spec ops unit. Spec Ops don't have 300,000+ personnel enrollment. Rangers do not have a base and their own aircraft carrier. Neither does Delta Force, SEAL, Force Recon, nor anyone else. That is a HUGE privilege granted to the JOE team that is not present (nor possibly even feasible) in our reality. If the JOEs receive that kind of boon, maintaining some sort of priority enrollment or the right to completely commandeer various special warfare schools doesn't seem so big. That is more what I meant in my previous post. JOEs don't need their own Ranger school when they can just use the existing one and staff it with their own people. Why reinvent the wheel when you can just borrow one? Thus what I said before, "if it looks like Ranger school......." Another divergence, the JOEs just seem to refer to themselves as JOEs, even though their ranks are culled from all fields of sevice. Leatherneck and Gung-Ho seem to call themselves JOEs and not Marines. In my opinion if you can convince a Marine to call himself something other than a Marine then you must have a very good indoctrination program. Sorry, but nothing is that sacred. How many frauds have claimed to be Medal of honor winners? There is a reason the Stolen Valor Act makes it a Federal offense to claim unreceived military awards. Just the fact that the Stolen Valor act had to be implemented means something is very wrong with folks and their own integrity. I have met many men who have claimed some form of spec ops status but I found their stories highly suspect. No proof one way or the other, but I would definitely catch a whiff of something now and then. I think our main difference is you are arguing that the cards are simply wrong, and I am arguing how they could be right considering the divergences in the JOEverse. I served at Bragg, so I can't say how the SEALs handle things, but I can't imagine their areas are just mixed in the the other Squids. As for the Carriers, Yes, the Marines have their own small Carriers. I don't think they're called "Aircraft carriers" but they perform the same function, only much smaller. They say Marines on the side. But I'm not a Marine, so I couldn't say what they specifically call them. The Flagg, however, if it was to scale would be about 1/4 the size of a regular Navy carrier, so it's not so far off from what the Marines use. Is Joeverse a stretch? sure. No argument. But I think each fan has to include the elements that they want. If you want to include all the elements that don't occur in the real world, more power to you. I just want my Joeverse to be a little more realistic, but no one's Joeverse is going to be completely realistic because, well, it's G.I. Joe. And women don't go to Ranger School in my Joeverse. And you're right, there are plenty of bums out there who claim to be former Spec Ops and were not. It's sad, but you're right; it happens all the time. It just wouldn't happen in a military unit with active duty personnel. Who in their right mind would show up to work with an unearned Ranger Tab on their sleeve, with a group of Spec Ops soldiers, many of whom are Rangers? Rangers tend to take that stuff pretty seriously. So yeah, lots of bums may claim to be Rangers, but I don't know any soldier who would go to work with a fake Ranger Tab, especially when they work with real Rangers. Not happening. Because you're right, in the world, nothing is sacred, but saying you're something you're not really does matter with those guys. I only say that because I worked with a few at Bragg. I'm not a Ranger; I was a Chaplain assigned to a Ranger Detachment in 4th PsyOps Group. Those guys are the real deal; nobody dares to fake it. People get hurt over stuff like that. Stay Warm, Cajun. Hope you were at least able to get a King Cake last Tuesday.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
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