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04-07-2011, 11:43 AM | #1 |
Oktober Guard soldier
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Under the sea!
Posts: 5,468
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Hey guys,
I know it's directly related to Joes, but any Joe fan is probably a military fan. These small documentaries show the traning involved for some of the best factions of the US military...man I was floored on how intense the training is...these are tough hombres... There's Marine Recon, Rangers and more...check 'em out! Surviving the Cut : Discovery Channel
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04-07-2011, 01:00 PM | #2 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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They've been out for a while.
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/movies...y-channel.html You can watch them all on youtube.
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04-07-2011, 01:11 PM | #3 |
Oktober Guard soldier
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Under the sea!
Posts: 5,468
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Yeah, thats where I've been watching them...sorry if it's old news...it was new to me. very cool!
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04-07-2011, 01:17 PM | #4 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,373
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Quote:
Hey guys,
I know it's directly related to Joes, but any Joe fan is probably a military fan. These small documentaries show the traning involved for some of the best factions of the US military...man I was floored on how intense the training is...these are tough hombres... There's Marine Recon, Rangers and more...check 'em out! Surviving the Cut : Discovery Channel Kudos to these guys. I know from the limited amount of infantry-type cross-training I received, that it's not cut out for me. I try and do my part, but you're right - these guys are tough hombres indeed. Sleep deprivation is a big one for me. Ugh, how I hated that...
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04-07-2011, 02:32 PM | #5 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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It's interesting to me how different units (in different countries and within the same country) emphasize different things, and are trying to identify and then develop different personality types.
I was talking to a guy who was in some Swedish special forces unit, and he was saying that they have some basic physical tests early on to weed out the people who just aren't up to a basic standard they know they can develop from in time. The rest of their selection had a lot to do with just finding the right personalities. Once they've selected their cadets, they can then focus on building up physical attributes among the ones who aren't up to snuff quite yet. They don't want to send a "Punisher" type guy into a hostage rescue situation or working with Afghan tribesmen. Many special forces, if anything are specifically not interested in the gung ho, fire from the hip, rambo guys or lone wolf types - even if they're the physically fittest guy on selection. I'd guess that lots of the Joes we know wouldn't make though selection for lots of special forces today. Even if Snake Eyes could talk, he'd probably have a hard time passing psychological tests - and he's definitely not much of a team player. I was reading a book about special warfare since ancient times, and the author makes the point that some of the most successful special operatives in history have been pretty odd ball characters, people who were able to think outside of the box. And the irony is that lots of the psychological tests they use in SF selection is designed to eliminate loose canons like this. Another interesting point the book made was that in US special forces selection, the people who are most likely to make the cut tend not to have infantry background, but are more likely to come from units that emphasize more intellectual independence. You want people who can make mature decisions, learn new languages, live in an OP with 3 other guys for 10 days without blowing their cover. Now I'm not dissing infantry (I'm ex mechinf myself). But the best grunt in an infantry platoon won't always make as good a green beret as a really dedicated guy who came from a signals or linguistic background. Or put differently, Odysseus would make a much better special operator than Achilles. |
04-07-2011, 07:57 PM | #6 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Now I'm not dissing infantry (I'm ex mechinf myself). But the best grunt in an infantry platoon won't always make as good a green beret as a really dedicated guy who came from a signals or linguistic background. Or put differently, Odysseus would make a much better special operator than Achilles.
Quote:
I have also been very impressed with the Green Berets, but I am not sure they are in the “elite” unit category. I think they are elite but the public image seems to be that they are more specialized than supermen. When I was in the Army, they were more weird than “elite.” They had a high percentage of multi-lingual immigrants from foreign countries. When they needed a two-way radio, they bought it at a civilian store... the rest of the Army had to put in a requisition and wait five years.
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04-07-2011, 08:06 PM | #7 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: THE GARDEN STATE OF EDEN!
Posts: 25,591
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everytime i watch this shit, i say to myself, thank god i never signed up..
and you're right, most joe fans are probably military fans, but the military don't interest me at all. but g.i. joe is the greatest toy ever.. |
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04-08-2011, 02:53 PM | #8 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
The emphasis on elite infantry/small unit combat maneuver skills in the American Special Forces selection process is a fairly recent phenomenon, if you take the word of retired 82nd Airborne Infantry captain John T. Reed. During his time in Vietnam, he says this of the SF:
At some point between Reed's time in Vietnam and the mid-1980s though, public perception of SF seemed to have shifted from them being the US military's premier specialists in unconventional/guerrilla warfare and languages to that of bull-headed, lantern-jawed, PT-obsessed, shoot-from-the-hip type, elite infantry "super-soldiers." You could probably blame this on Hollywood and trashy paperback military novels (the majority of whose proponents likely lack either the creative skill or the dedication to authenticity to portray unconventional warfare in a manner that would be as riveting and entertaining as having Rambo mowing down hundreds of enemies while only getting minor scratches in return), but it's not as if the Army has done much to dispel that image. I always had the sense that the Green Berets were more into the hearts and minds type stuff and the SEALs were more of the ruthless superman type, is this the general impression? The terms special forces and elite have also changed a little over time - Elite, as I understand it, refers to any unit that is regarded as a cut above the rest. Conventional infantry units with a particular aggressive culture or a long combat history might be considered elites without being special force. The British Paras and the USMC might be good examples of this. "Special forces" has traditionally been used about unconventional warfare units, but now that counterinsurgency and "hearts and minds" operations are becoming part of the job description for regular infantry, I'm not sure the distinction is that clear anymore. And then you have units like the US Rangers and the Royal Marines which aren't quite considered special forces but seem to be kind of halfway there - the Royal Marines have "commando status", whatever that means. As nations gear themselves towards assymmetrical warfare and do away with conscription, the notions of what makes a force "special" are changing. Any unit that has some kind of rare specialization might be considered a special force in the most generous understanding of that term. I mean, pretty much all infantry trained in Scandinavia and Switzerland have mountain/arctic warfare training as a forgone conclusion. The average 19 year old Norwegian conscripted rifleman doesn't think of himself as a "Cold Weather Specialist" - he just comes from a country where people learn to ski in elementary school. Then he sees a bunch of big, tough US Marines who could totally kick his ass in a bar fight struggling to stand upright on skis and he realizes he takes that for granted. Similarly in WWII, being able to operate a motor vehicle was by no means taken for granted in many countries. Certainly, a soldier who already knew how to drive a jeep and didn't have to be trained from scratch would have a better shot at making the LRDG. That was genuinely a specialist skill back then. I'd guess the same could be said for computer literacy in the early-to-mid '80s. |
04-08-2011, 03:00 PM | #9 |
Ex-Pharisee
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace
Posts: 12,216
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I LOVE the military channel. I've been watching Surviving the Cut as well as Ultimate Weapons. There are a few other shows I dvr and watch as well. Great channel.
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04-08-2011, 06:13 PM | #10 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Quote:
In places like Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't think the distinction exists at all. When a conventional military force operates in major civilian population centers in wartime, the task of "working closely with the natives," which was traditionally the province of Special Forces and Civil Affairs, becomes an implicit part of the conventional force's mission. This leads to all sorts of problems when there isn't a lot of coordination... I've heard/read about conventional infantry battalion or brigade commanders spending weeks and months building rapport with friendly local Afghans or Iraqis using a combination of the carrot and the stick (aiding locals friendly to the coalition's cause whilst encouraging the marginalization of those who are sympathetic to the insurgents) only to have their efforts undermined when Civil Affairs or Provincial Reconstruction Teams come in dispensing aid and support left and right, reducing the effect of whatever operationally advantageous divisions within the local population the conventional force commander and his men might have engineered during their time in the area. Last edited by zuludelta; 04-08-2011 at 06:21 PM.. |
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