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06-13-2021, 09:41 PM | #1 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 14,837
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Per request, this thread is to discuss the Retro Line (4") figures produced in Vietnam. Please post any questions, answers, discussions, or pics of your Retro figures, and how you customize them. Please post any swaps and customs you like.
Here are the first few breakdowns of the Vietnam mold Retro Figures: Quote:
I didn't watch any reviews, so this might be common knowledge already, but i was kind of curious about the articulation on that crappy figure. Turns out, it has even more poa than the regular moderns. It has both waist and mid torso articulation, the head is attached with a dumbbell like the BFS figures, and the legs have 2 additional swivel joints.
Quote:
Okay, as promised:
Stalker legs fit perfectly on the Marauders Contract Ops torso. The contract legs fit Stalker to the point where they don’t come off, but are very loose. A drop of hot glue would fix this right up. The same is true for the WWII US torso. The Marauder legs are slightly tighter on the Stalker torso, but would still benefit from the glue. Despite appearances, Stalker’s hands are pretty much identical in size to Marauder hands. And Marauder hands fit perfectly on Stalker’s arms Marauder head fits on Stalker’s neck ball well, but sits high. This can be fixed by shaving down the top of the neck ball. Conversely, Stalker’s head rides low on the Marauder torso. However a small drop of hot glue cures that. Retro web gear fits Marauders with no problem. Quote:
Now that you guys have had some time to view the photos, it's guided tour time...
General Info: Construction is a lot like BFS with the exception of a waist swivel and the thigh/boot swivels. Everything other than the waist section is soft plastic and appears to assemble with boil/pop construction. What you may not have noticed is that there are no visible knee pins on either one of these figures. I haven't tried to disassemble the lower legs, but I imagine Hasbro borrowed from Project Green Valley on this aspect. While the Cobra trooper legs still look like trash no matter what, the Stalker legs really do look nice with a well-hidden thigh cut, boot cut, and no knee pins. It gives a much cleaner appearance that you don't appreciate until you see it side-by-side with a figure with visible knee pins. More on that later. For now, here is how these guys break down... Showing the torso articulation points: And showing the head attachment method: I didn't disassemble any further than this since this trooper is on its way to sbartek (he OK'd my little disassembly and photo shoot in advance) and I didn't want to risk any damage. The neck barbell is HUGE on the in-the-neck ball section and the neck really wants to hold onto it. Stalker's neck barbell never came out of the neck - instead the head popped off, and that took some doing. Boil/pop would probably be safest for head removal (and re-installation) to avoid breaking the barbell. Head socket depth comparison (Stalker vs MTF): Range of motion on the figures is good. Knees do what you'd expect. Elbows do better than 90 degrees, but this is probably what is also contributing to reported breakage of figure elbows. Not enough meat to support them. A bigger factor in the elbow breakage, I suspect, is that the elbow joint is pretty tight-fitting and is designed to not have the arm go fully straight. The forearm is actually designed to be pitched slightly forward. When you straighten the arm out, there is a corner of the inner disc that sticks out of the front of the elbow joint. Sanding that down to round it over might help avoid breakage. Dunno. Here is a close-up of the issue on Stalker, but the trooper has it too: Splits are insane on these guys. They get full 90-degree splits: The legs pop off with ease, but the t-bar is plastic and it's thin, so I recommend caution. Boil/pop is not necessary, but I'd recommend lifting the leg straight out sideways (full splits) and pulling the leg off straight away from the hip that direction to minimize risk to the t-bar. The leg sockets are built a lot like MTF, but the hip bar thicknesses, ball diameters, and ball textures are significantly different. MTF bars are thicker and the hip balls are larger and are either smooth or with ridges. The Joe hip bars are thinner and the hip balls are smaller in diameter and have a studded surface. Overall, these parts are not natively compatible. Putting the Joe legs onto MTF hip balls would probably stretch them out, especially over time. MTF legs on these Joes would need replacement t-bars or some filler. Here is the difference in sizes and appearance: Now is also a good time to appreciate the lack of visible knee pins: Legs are about the same as MTF, overall: I notice that the knees are in different positions in the legs also. I'm not sure which is more anatomically correct, but they are different. When it comes to leg swapping, BFS t-bars are thinner and have smaller hip balls, so they might be directly swappable with these Retro Joes. I didn't test for that though. Feet scale large on these Retro Joes. Stalker isn't too bad, but the trooper has clown feet: Hands have also appeared oddly large in photos of these figures, but when placed side-by-side the general hand size is actually pretty par for the course: The hands are a bit larger on these Joes, for sure, but not as bad as they sometimes look in photos. I think the trouble comes down to the length of the digits and - especially on the trooper - the size of the grip position. This photo showcases a bit of both aspects: The mid-chest split is a ball joint design, not a simple swivel. Range of motion on the chest split is pretty darn good. It looks like a boil and pop would get the upper torso off, but I haven't tried it. The waist swivel doesn't add much, but it's there and it's tight enough that it doesn't really hurt anything (unlike the buck used for 50th Falcon, for example). Parts are swappable between Stalker and the trooper: That's about it for general construction info. Cobra Trooper: Opinions seemed to soften when people viewed the 30th/50th Cobra trooper next to the Retro trooper. I didn't find the comparison to be flattering for the Retro trooper at all, personally. It just made me take a more critical look at the 30th/50th trooper and realize a few areas that need improvement there (feet are actually a bit too small, the legs at the hip stick out, I've never been impressed by the webgear...). But if nothing else positive can be said about the Retro trooper, at least he has about the same overall height and about the same overall limb lengths. The sculpt on the Retro trooper is very rudimentary. There is no fine texture, the wrinkles are minimal in number and oversized where they do exist. The lengths of the limbs are ok enough, but the proportions for diameter and the shape of the limbs is just bizarre. This is not the normal human form. The forearms are thicker than the upper arms (not just where the unpainted tech bracers - or whatever they are supposed to be - are, but everywhere). The hands just look enormous, as previously discussed. This trooper will have a hard time holding any traditional weapons from vintage or other ME figures due to the size of his grip. Every one of the accessories that comes with the Cobra trooper is rubbery and flexible. The pistol and the knife don't really suffer for it, but the bazooka and rifle both do. Especially the rifle, which is bowed straight from the package and is larger than the previous version, and is not painted at all: The bazooka's eyepiece was wobbly straight from the package and fell off when I was putting it into the trooper's hands for a photo. Lame. The grip is also pretty large. I doubt you could get a 25th-50th era figure to hold it. The sculpt is very basic, and it's painted. Yeah, rubbery AND painted. Look forward to lots of paint wear. The helmet is also flexible and wants to flatten itself when it's not on a head, so it looks like crap on its own but it can be put onto larger/varied heads which is probably an overall plus as long as you don't want to use the helmet for a diorama piece or to have the figure holding the helmet rather than wearing it. Anyway, here it is on a fatter MTF head: The leg holster has an early 25th-anniversary vibe to it. It's pretty boxy and basic, but the pistol fits nicely inside and stays put. The webgear cannot be opened up. It has been glued at its connection point in the back, which is small and fragile-looking and which I do not think was designed for anything other than one-time installation: You can, however, remove the legs and slide the straps down over the shoulders to work the webgear off of the bottom of the figure's torso. Follow the same process in reverse to put the webgear back onto the trooper or onto any other figure that can fit. It's a pretty good size for a MTF trooper body: MTF vests fit on the Cobra trooper body fairly loosely: The trooper's chest is not as large as Stalkers and the trooper's waist is downright skinny. Stalker: Where the trooper lacks in surface detail, Stalker has texture on just about every bit of him. His shirt is not only ribbed, but also has knit sweater appearance. His pants also have a canvas/jeans type of texture. They did a nice job on that. The wrinkles are not as sparse as they are on the trooper, and they are much finer. Paint apps were skipped on the waist and the knees, which is unfortunate. Also, this is as far down to his sides as he can get is arms. This is the only disappointment I have with his articulation's range of motion (I hate rocker ankles, but the range on these seems pretty standard for rockers). Just like the trooper's accessories, all of Stalker's accessories are rubbery. The machine guns are pretty useless in my opinion. Plan on replacing them. The pistol and knife are just fine though. The webgear for Stalker is also glued closed in the back: This set is harder to remove than the trooper's but it's the same basic procedure. Once it's off, it fits well on MTF figures: MTF vests have a hard time closing on Stalker's chest, however: If you heat and stretch the vest into place you might get it to work, but you're not likely to get it to fit without special effort. The holster on the webgear is nicely detailed as well, and holds the pistol nicely without falling out. Quote:
Quote:
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06-13-2021, 10:03 PM | #2 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Val Verde
Posts: 2,345
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Thanks for compiling all this in one handy place!
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06-13-2021, 11:18 PM | #3 |
Tiger Force member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Here with my boy , Jacob , and Mama:)
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Thanks for the info!!
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06-13-2021, 11:23 PM | #4 |
The Man You Know & Love
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Awesome for doing this 46Zone! I love it!
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06-13-2021, 11:50 PM | #5 |
LNC Commander
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Posts: 24,579
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Greatness 46!
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06-14-2021, 06:52 AM | #6 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,029
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So, I am guessing that the arms are not a simple boil and pop, or you would have shown them.
What about the knees? Do you think they are boil and pop? I am liking how they don't have the knee pin. I'm pretty excited about this Stalker figure and hope that Hasbro uses the fan-crazed momentum to offer more O13 in this same mold. Heck, I'd like to see Snake Eyes in this mold and web gear. As good as that Stalker looks, it just makes me even more disappointed in the Cobra Trooper though. Hopefully, Hasbro remedies this with a Cobra Officer that uses a different, brand new sculpt. Jason |
06-14-2021, 11:03 AM | #7 |
Bald Master
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
Posts: 15,130
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That use of Stalker’s body for the OG13 Hawk (?) custom is outstanding!
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06-14-2021, 11:17 AM | #8 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: America
Posts: 1,414
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Nicely Done!
And yeah, I am sold on Stalker. He looks real good Cobra Trooper sucks though |
06-14-2021, 12:06 PM | #9 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 17,156
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Thanks for compiling this. Since we are talking about the new builds, just wanted to remind/inform about the Fang Pilot. I do not know if the Trooper has the same issue, but early reviews of Fang Pilots had a lot of people snapping the left arm off at the elbow.
The problem is the little piece on the upper arm that sticks out just above the glove cuff. It gets stuck here: You need to hold really close to the joint so you don't get too much momentum to accidentally snap the arm while trying to bend it. Only seems to be an issue on the left elbow. Haven't read of anyone having that problem with the trooper, but just in case.
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06-14-2021, 09:05 PM | #10 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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Nighthawk's on it: dont bend at the hand, bend near the end of the long glove. Past that, the bending range is quite awesome.
Some more part pics below: 20210613_151330 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr New upper leg construction, new to 3.75 joes. No more leg halves screwed together, both halves are a single molded piece to which the upper swivel plugs into. The leg is now rubbery instead of hard ABS. Warm it up to connect/disconnect to equally pliable upper portion (try not to heat the upper portion. Looking for other's thoughts, but seems best results to disconnecting is to bend hard side to side, limit twisting, don't pull straight out. Same applies to reconnecting. I am concerned about the life durability of that plug piece. From the sound of it, upper leg is cast continuous but separate from the knee, no more pegs, single continuous leg parts and bar through the knee piece similar to previous shoulder ball, elbow ball, hand ball and foot ball. A technique for dealing with this to swap upper and lower leg pieces will have to be developed. Looking for ideas, working on some myself. 20210613_151236 by HissHissFangFang, on Flickr More leg plug fun, at the boot swivel. All that was said above applies here again. Stalker's construction already shows construction improvement. Notice the cast-in ring around the peg at the leg that is a secondary soft/large plug into the boot. Results in a tighter better fitting joint, and is vastly easier to plug and unplug to the CT leg. But note that you can't swap boot and leg parts on these because of that additional cast ring, and different plug lengths. Hopefully the stay consisent using the Stalker config only moving forward. Also the feet of these swap and fit with no problems. Will check with Gung Ho and Retaliation Roadblck//50th Leatherneck later in the week. Maybe the CT's long feet will look all right on those other figures... I'm so glad they've finally built swivel movement back into the legs (though I do question if it's needed at two locations). Ever since they switched the foot construction staring in 2011 or 2012, many of those new figures had issues with feet locked into positions pointing awkwardly in or out (GungHo). Also, I find found the old swivel feet to be a great and simply way to balance figures from falling or leaning front or back (turn feet outboard to lean a bit forward, inward to go backward, small increments made huge difference). Also glad that the two new swivels did not result in stupidly long legs (lots of plugs and holes and knees and rods going through such a short length of leg. More later, as we go through the week. So much to unpack here... |
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