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07-17-2022, 08:28 PM | #11 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest Indiana
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I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that, during the first 65 episodes of the show, I didn't see Flint as a "#2". But rather as a 2nd "#1". If that makes any sense at all.
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07-17-2022, 08:45 PM | #12 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: VA
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I don't see the difference between being #2 and being 1B, if there is a 1A. You are the second in command.
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07-17-2022, 08:56 PM | #13 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sitting in my tin can far above the world
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In GI Joe, command is determined by who currently has their figure on store shelves.
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07-17-2022, 10:35 PM | #14 |
Just a fan
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07-18-2022, 12:13 AM | #15 |
Grail Knight
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Elsewhere
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I always figured Duke just outranked Flint on the show and then they just command different groups of Joes when necessary.
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(I mean, are we even really sure that he didn't kill the Hard Master and simply tricked Zartan into believing he did? Or that he's even really the guy Stalker knew in Vietnam?) Last edited by SnowCat; 07-18-2022 at 12:26 AM.. |
07-18-2022, 05:14 AM | #16 |
Dark Lord of the Mods
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,388
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Quote:
Off-topic tanget here. I love some of the old Marvel run, but that page is right up there with the very worst of Hama's writing. Steeler lifted, what, 300 lbs in Issue #3? Probably nearly 3 times what Scarlett weighs. It would've been nice to know exactly how Scarlett bested someone with a major strength and size advantage. Clearly she would have to use her brains and skills (Maybe she used a pressure point thing to disable him like Chozen in Cobra Kai? That'd be cool.) which would've provided interesting info about her and Snake-Eyes. Instead, we just get "Hey look, Scarlett is super...but Snake-Eyes is even super-er!" What's worse is that this snowballs with every issue, resulting in the OP Snake-Eyes of later issues. It's just terrible, as bad as that Duke page.
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07-18-2022, 07:22 AM | #17 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sitting in my tin can far above the world
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Yeah, I could see her being able to utilize technique to get him off his feet, but to ring his bell to the point where he doesn't know where he is silly, but then you see this all the time in comics/movies/tv shows, where much smaller protagonists (male OR female) beat the tar out of much larger opponents.
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07-18-2022, 08:35 AM | #18 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,030
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Quote:
So, when Duke was released, I'm pretty sure that Hasbro was slowing/stopping production of the MMS & Hawk. As Hama has stated, and is mentioned in the dossier posted above, Duke was supposed to be this battle-hardened First Sergeant brought in to lead the Joes like a Field Commander. Also, in the 1980s, you had sort of 3 different Joe Universes going on at the same time: File Cards, Comics, & Cartoons, and oftentimes there was not any consistency between the 3. In the comics, up until Duke was introduced, Stalker was portrayed as the clear First Sgt./Field Commander, while Hawk seemed to lead (mostly) from the Base. When the first cartoon mini-series was introduced in 1983, I'm sure Hasbro was already aware that they were discontinuing the MMS/Hawk, which is why he didn't show up in the cartoons. However, since Hawk was the established leader in the comic and continued to be strongly portrayed in the comics, this was probably what led to the 1986 "Gen. Hawk" figure. I kind of get what you are saying about an "A" & "B" leadership, if you had two teams (Alpha & Beta) led by two equally ranked characters, but that's not really how Duke & Flint were portrayed in the cartoons. However, in the comics, I think Duke and Flint are portrayed more like equals. In another thread, I listed the set up for my (geeky) Joeverse, where I have (Capt.) Duke as a Field Commander and (CW-4) Flint as a Squad Leader equal with Torpedo (also a CW-4). I like to think of Duke and Flint as old friends, but who have a major rift between them, and have only been brought together on the team because Gen. Colton (GIJoe) needs both of them: Duke being the better leader, but Flint being the better soldier. Jason |
07-18-2022, 09:08 AM | #19 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,183
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Quote:
I always figured Duke just outranked Flint on the show and then they just command different groups of Joes when necessary.
I wonder if that page (and the figure's strange grin) is the root of most of the hate Duke gets. I mean, he's a pretty decent guy in the Sunbow show. Off-topic tanget here. I love some of the old Marvel run, but that page is right up there with the very worst of Hama's writing. Steeler lifted, what, 300 lbs in Issue #3? Probably nearly 3 times what Scarlett weighs. It would've been nice to know exactly how Scarlett bested someone with a major strength and size advantage. Clearly she would have to use her brains and skills (Maybe she used a pressure point thing to disable him like Chozen in Cobra Kai? That'd be cool.) which would've provided interesting info about her and Snake-Eyes. Instead, we just get "Hey look, Scarlett is super...but Snake-Eyes is even super-er!" What's worse is that this snowballs with every issue, resulting in the OP Snake-Eyes of later issues. It's just terrible, as bad as that Duke page. I've always found it odd that Duke's many captures in the show get so much attention while Snake-Eyes spends a fair amount of time in enemy hands in the Marvel comics. (Captured by Venom, issue #10), (Captured by Venom again in #12), (Captured by random Cobra troops, #14), (Captured by Venom again, #19), (Captured by Cobra, while disguised as Flint for some reason, #54), (Captured by Cobra yet again, #56), (Captured by Baroness, #94), (Captured by Firefly, #126). Those are just the ones I remember. When you factor in that Snake-Eyes in the comics is basically unstoppable and ridiculously OP, he must be allowing himself to be captured. Add in the facts that Cobra has had multiple opportunities to kill him and that he has had multiple opportunities to end the war by killing Cobra Commander, yet chose not to, it becomes obvious he does not truly work for the USA/GI Joe. But since Cobra doesn't ever seem to get an edge over GI Joe either, the only logical conclusion is that Snake-Eyes is actually playing both sides against each other for his own nefarious purposes. I submit that he faked his death in issue #213 (He did it before in #63) and he's the actual brains behind the Blue Ninjas, who will defeat both GI Joe and Cobra, so that Snake-Eyes himself can rule the world, along with his own carefully selected group of minions (who are all ninjas, of course). (I mean, are we even really sure that he didn't kill the Hard Master and simply tricked Zartan into believing he did? Or that he's even really the guy Stalker knew in Vietnam?) Further exacerbating that was that Hama did not seem to like Duke or portray him well. I think he used Duke in a similar fashion to how medieval authors dealt with Lancelot (this may be an opposite contrast rather than a parallel. I am not a morning person, and most of my brainpower is being devoted to avoiding apostrophes right now). Anyway, if a mission had to fail (Cobra Commander gets rescued, the Joes fail to kick Cobra off a newly created Cobra Island, the Pitt gets invaded), Duke would be in charge. I have no problem with Scarlett knocking Steeler around. Just because he is heavier and stronger does not mean he can fight. She was established as a great hand-to-hand fighter due to her past martial arts background. |
07-18-2022, 11:05 AM | #20 |
Just a fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: NY
Posts: 8,586
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Quote:
Yeah, I could see her being able to utilize technique to get him off his feet, but to ring his bell to the point where he doesn't know where he is silly, but then you see this all the time in comics/movies/tv shows, where much smaller protagonists (male OR female) beat the tar out of much larger opponents.
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The whole martial arts/Asian mysticism thing is a fantasy. Bruce Lee often gets deified due to his impact on pop-culture and his untimely death. |
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