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09-08-2009, 02:37 PM | #1 |
69% of Serpentor's DNA
Join Date: Dec 2008
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this has bothered me for ages. why would he turn against cobra?
he was the saw viper who racked up an impressive body count (especially since the average for the rest of cobra is zero) during the benzheen war around issues 109-115 of the original comic series. he died when he underestimated storm shadow, snake eyes, jinx, and scarlett, who killed him during a struggle in a cobra helicopter. his final words were something along the lines of, "you're going to fight me with your bare hands? ha!" devil's due's comic really jumped the shark hard when it brought back serpentor and the saw viper (who now had a name, robert skelton) from the dead. serpentor, though a bad idea, was at least somewhat explained. but skelton had supposedly not been dead, had gone awol from cobra, operated as a mercenary for a while, and joined up with serpentor's coil organization. (let's ignore that the four deadliest joes aren't going to leave the guy alive by mistake if they intend to kill him, one panel clearly shows a corpse, and, even if the ninjas and readers were mistaken, there was a big group of joes present who had reason to hate him, and would've noticed if he was alive.) so why the hell would he leave cobra if he wasn't as dead as he seemed? cobra commander had first chewed him out for killing nine joes in a misunderstanding, but he stood up to him and earned the commander's highest praise. cobra commander even threw a celebration in his honor. (how many parties has destro gotten?) the guy clearly would've had a future in cobra if he lived. i hated the idea of bringing him back, but never could make sense of why things would've gone the way they did for him in the devil's due universe since his supposed death. some plot holes can be reasoned away, but this one still nags at me even though i dropped the book because of this sort of stupidity. any thoughts on this, or just plain bad writing and nothing else?
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09-08-2009, 06:42 PM | #2 |
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I agree with you that bringing the SAW Viper back sucked hard. The Benzheen/Trucial Abysmia war at least had some closure when was (seemingly) killed.
But to whip up a No-Prize Explanation and answer your questions about why he'd turn on Cobra: The Benzheen War ended suddenly and Cobra pulled out just as quick. So it's possible that several personnel and equipment was left behind without a second thought. Why would Cobra Commander gives a darn about all those troops and armor left in Benzheen, when he had just received a gigantic lump of cash from the Emir? He's good..got what he wanted...Cobraaaa: Go Home! Fill-in-the-blanks and you can surmise that Sketlon/SAW Viper was left alone in the middle of the desert with no supplies, Medi-vipers or Cobra buddies. He was probably seriously injured by the Ninja Team, too. Probably had to crawl across the desert for days and, when he got to back to what was the Cobra base, it was abandoned. So I think that would question his loyalty to Cobra. Whatta' ya' think, sirs?
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09-08-2009, 07:17 PM | #3 |
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Actually I think I recall Skelton mentioning that after he survived the ninja attack, Cobra hunted HIM.
I'm guessing they looked at him as some sort of scape goat...not suprising really. And the fact that he survived a Joe Ninja attack and dodged Cobra for years made him a good candidate for The Coil which is what he joined, before Cobra outfitted him as the Cyborg Overkill. |
09-08-2009, 11:28 PM | #4 |
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Oh and just to be sure no one ever said that the SAW Viper was dead, they just said we got some payback.
That could mean anything from humilation of Skelton to death and anywhere in between. I'm not sure I liked him being brought back either, but it was far from the Jump the Shark moment for DDP. It coould be said that Reloaded was the Jump moment for DDP, clearly they had sights set on making a continuity reboot of some sort then...when it failed terribly (I sorta liked the book personally but it did flop in sales), they didn't learn their lesson. To me the Red Shadows were BADLY mishandled and could have been an epic story line, the build was even pretty decent, and while I hated the death of Lady Jaye...it was an epic event. What killed the Shadows line was last minute changes like Colton's survival. That moment wasn't just completely contradictory it was out and out blasting a rocket over the shark. America's Elite didn't help any with Joe Casey who if you ask me had zero knowledge of how to write GI Joe...and hey I loved Caseys runs on Cable and Wildcats...but he had no idea about Joe. I mean come on he resurrected a completely dead character 20 years from Joes past, which by the way was done sorta done in Frontline by Brandon Jerwa already, to give the book a new fresh spin a book new readers could jump on and not feel bogged down by past issues to understand by bringing back one of the MOST obscure characters ever. Nice job. I'm ranting. I'll stop. |
09-09-2009, 03:48 PM | #5 |
69% of Serpentor's DNA
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: california
Posts: 90
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why would cobra need a scapegoat? they've been trying to kill joes for years. they've even succeeded a few times. it wouldn't be like they hand over skelton, and all is forgiven, and hawk and cobra commander start having lunch every week at the country club. even if they could make it seem that he was violating orders, he was still acting in the manner cobra troopers normally act. so the "cobra hunting him" angle didn't work for me.
they may not have specifically said he was dead, but they showed his corpse. if i see a dude who's been attacked by angry ninjas lying in a twisted pose, with his glass visor broken to show his eyes are open, i interpret it as "dead." even if he were just unconscious or pretending, storm shadow blew up the helicopter immediately after they were clear to make it look like a crash. they couldn't leave loose ends, and someone would've noticed a burning saw viper running away. to me, he was every bit as dead as wingfield. (i nearly crapped my pants when i saw his writeup in the essential guide. yeah, no way that guy survived.) for me, the first year of ddp was great. it started going downhill with serpentor's resurrection. serpentor's a great idea, but not in gijoe. that story was still written pretty well, though. skelton came out of nowhere, and, especially when serpentor had just come back, made it seem like x-men, where no one is dead no matter how many times they show and bury the corpse. the red shadows were the final straw. i didn't have a problem with them or the death of lady jaye, only with what a waste that whole story was. these guys come out of nowhere, kill off a massive number of joes and cobras just so the writer can show how dangerous they are, then they vanish into smoke, never to be seen again. they're not even defeated; they're just gone. lady jaye died for nothing if they didn't prove to be an ongoing, credible threat, and her death wasn't even particularly well-scripted. i came back for a few issues with the launch of america's elite, but the "feel" of the book wasn't very joe-ish to me, and i dropped it again.
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09-11-2009, 02:47 AM | #6 |
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what a great info, thanks.
Thanks so much for this. I appreciate the effort. It really helps a lot. |
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09-15-2009, 08:43 AM | #7 |
69% of Serpentor's DNA
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and here i thought there was a continuation of the discussion. i'm going to go out on a limb and guess your entire reason for posting something with no connection to the discussion was the hope that someone would clikc on your links?
if i'm wrong, i'll gladly apologize, but that post looks like it belongs in a can and would only sell in hawaii.
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09-18-2009, 11:27 PM | #8 |
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Theoretically, Cobra wanted to keep the US, and the Joes in particular, out of the area until their "dirty work" was done. Having Skelton as a scapegoat allowed Cobra Commander to say, "He acted without my orders, it's not my fault!" In terms of Skelton surviving, yeah it's a bit flimsy, 'cause he sure does look dead. I suppose that he's just really tough and his body armor protected him.
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09-19-2009, 12:47 AM | #9 |
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Quote:
Quote:
and here i thought there was a continuation of the discussion. i'm going to go out on a limb and guess your entire reason for posting something with no connection to the discussion was the hope that someone would clikc on your links?
if i'm wrong, i'll gladly apologize, but that post looks like it belongs in a can and would only sell in hawaii. Well, this will definitely not be a continuation of the discussion right here. So when you jump back on to see what else was written in the thread you postedI think you may be dissapointed agian... WTF? Don't be an ass to the new guy. What's the matter with you? Did YOU post this THREAD to get people to click on YOUR "links"? Easy answer to your "dumb question about robert skelton" would probably be- The creative team putiting out the issues were big joe geeks/fans, probably liked the SAW Viper alot and decided to come up with some way to bring him into the DDP continuity because they thought it might be cool. Some people liked it, some didn't. I thought it stunk myself, but I feel like playing devil's advocate becuase you irked me with your snotty comment up there, and there's probably people on here who liked it just fine. Maybe you should apologize to the guy, rather than tell him off for no reason, and then throw in a half ass apology coupled with ANOTHER insult. The guy is obviously NEW, It looks like that was his first post and English may not be his first language. Did you think of that? No you didn't, you made an assumption about his motives for no reason at all other than you didn't like what he had to write. It obviously offended you somehow- Though through my reading of it I can't see how it would, unless you have some severe paranoia and anxiety problems as well as a heathly dosage of rage bouncing around inside your skull. Way to set an example. |
09-19-2009, 02:09 AM | #10 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
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What he said.
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