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01-11-2012, 04:48 PM | #21 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 561
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Issue 80 was Duke's 21st appearance, but your observation is still spot on, Hama never made him more than a top of the 2nd tier character (Exactly what a 1st Shirt would be, leader of the grunts). The Duke in Sunbow was basically Hawk..... And I COMPLETELY agree w/ the previous poster, Flint would have been a better choice for the CIA than our career grunt; Conrad Hauser.
G.I. Joe Comics Home Page: Duke, Part 2 |
01-11-2012, 05:24 PM | #22 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Right. DDP went with Duke because he had a larger presence in the cartoon. Same with Shipwreck.
Shipwreck was a 4th or 5th tier character in Marvel prior to DDP.
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01-11-2012, 06:26 PM | #23 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
4 issues of a big war Serpentor dead, Mindbender joins CC, war is over all in two pages. It just felt extremely rushed at the tail end as if they had to have the war finished in that exact issue. Another thing I'm thinking of is the weirdness of some of the stories that seem to be forgotten by the next issue. Issue 78 ended with Hawk and the other guy in the hospital when Destro appears and hands a receipt ot one of the politicians, but the next issue was about the Dreadknocks, and the issue after that had them fighting over a possible new island. What happened to the storyline with the Jugglers? It just disappeared.
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01-11-2012, 07:17 PM | #24 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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I think the idea was that Destro took care of the Jugglers by exposing them. It seemed to me like a solid ending to te storyline - Hama could easily have ended the Civil War story arch with the death of Serpentor, but the next two issues made it more political, believable.
The Civil War storyline was one of the best ever, and I liked how they used a silly character like Serpentor. Getting killed Harold Godwinson-style is also a pretty solid way to go out - there's just no messing around with an arrow sticking out of your head. My only complaint was that there were all these big battles that we only saw glimpses of. I'm sure that was intentional - give the sense of a large scale campagn going on without turning it into an Iliadic scale repetitive thing. It would have been cool to see a little more of the fighting, and if the Joes had taken some casualties beyond a few troops wounded, that would have probably made it a little better. I'd love for Hama to revisit the old storyline and maybe fill in some of the blanks retrospectively. How long did the recon team take capturing that control tower? How did they pull off that armored beach landing and flank attack without being detected until it was too late? What about that big opening battle by the tanker between Serpentors Hiss Squadron and the Baronesses MAGGOTs? This would lend itself well to a special missions style storytelling - focus on one battle/firefight at a time and highlight some overlooked Joes and maybe show things from the POV of some Cobra grunts as well. |
01-11-2012, 07:24 PM | #25 |
Gunslinger
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MidWorld
Posts: 38,081
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One of the other things I loved about the Civil War was the use of almost the entire GI Joe team broken down into special teams. I've always wanted to go over the rosters and put my figures into those same teams.
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01-11-2012, 07:26 PM | #26 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,035
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Quote:
You know, maybe it isn't the way he died that bothers me, but more of the way Mindbender just blew off his death with a cowardly act a panel later that made his death feel gyped. I guess the way I saw it is this:
4 issues of a big war Serpentor dead, Mindbender joins CC, war is over all in two pages. It just felt extremely rushed at the tail end as if they had to have the war finished in that exact issue. Another thing I'm thinking of is the weirdness of some of the stories that seem to be forgotten by the next issue. Issue 78 ended with Hawk and the other guy in the hospital when Destro appears and hands a receipt ot one of the politicians, but the next issue was about the Dreadknocks, and the issue after that had them fighting over a possible new island. What happened to the storyline with the Jugglers? It just disappeared. But even the Mindbender parts in Serpentor's death were really great, and it fit the characters' personalities to a tee. Remember, the whole Cobra Island war was really just a clash of egos between Fred and Serpy. When one of them died, there was no reason to fight. Mindy manages to be both cowardly and tactically shrewd in the space of a couple of panels. And just like that, him and Fred are suddenly the best of buddies. That's politics for ya. It's a pretty good parallel to real life to see how quickly Serpentor is forgotten. The line between glory and despair is thin indeed. But you shouldn't confuse the negligence of a couple of self-serving individuals as an attempt to undermine Serpentor as a character. I remember as a kid I had a complete WTF experience when the ending to 78 turned out to be just that. But really, there wasn't much left to add to it. Malthus and Hegel had already been caught, and Destro brought in the evidence. All that's missing is the panel where they get booked and taken away. |
01-11-2012, 07:43 PM | #27 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,035
|
Quote:
I think the idea was that Destro took care of the Jugglers by exposing them. It seemed to me like a solid ending to te storyline - Hama could easily have ended the Civil War story arch with the death of Serpentor, but the next two issues made it more political, believable.
The Civil War storyline was one of the best ever, and I liked how they used a silly character like Serpentor. Getting killed Harold Godwinson-style is also a pretty solid way to go out - there's just no messing around with an arrow sticking out of your head. My only complaint was that there were all these big battles that we only saw glimpses of. I'm sure that was intentional - give the sense of a large scale campagn going on without turning it into an Iliadic scale repetitive thing. It would have been cool to see a little more of the fighting, and if the Joes had taken some casualties beyond a few troops wounded, that would have probably made it a little better. I'd love for Hama to revisit the old storyline and maybe fill in some of the blanks retrospectively. How long did the recon team take capturing that control tower? How did they pull off that armored beach landing and flank attack without being detected until it was too late? What about that big opening battle by the tanker between Serpentors Hiss Squadron and the Baronesses MAGGOTs? This would lend itself well to a special missions style storytelling - focus on one battle/firefight at a time and highlight some overlooked Joes and maybe show things from the POV of some Cobra grunts as well. I don't think Hama should revisit it, though. He's only good really when he's allowed to go forward and just wing it in his own style. He's admitted as much, saying he prefers not to look back. I must be in the minority, but I didn't like Declassified, at all. It just seemed too forced, like he felt he didn't really have anything to say about the team's formation. I think a real Joe declassified would just consist of Flagg and Austin reading through a couple hundred dossiers for 22 pages, instead of some planted-on hero moments. Instead, he should write a completely new and different major battle, in the vain of the battles in Springfield, Cobra Island and Trucial Abysmia. Maybe something reminiscent of the Yugoslavia war, with the Joes trying to liberate Borovia from troops loyal to the Cobra regime? Agreed, and this is one of the reasons I love comics like Joe and TF with their insane casts. Each member being given an opportunity to showcase their special expertise in a larger context. |
01-11-2012, 11:57 PM | #28 |
Devil Viper
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 1,529
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God, after reading through this thread, I'm going to have to go back and re-read all of the original series once again!!! Darn you guys!
But I read through the entire 1st "DISAVOWED" TPB and never once did I get a feeling of the Sunbow cartoon series. Not once. So I don't know what the heck you guys are talking about. The writing wasn't the best at times, but yeah, it never felt like a Sunbow episode.
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01-12-2012, 12:28 AM | #29 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Never said it felt like a Sunbow episode, just said that they tried to bring elements of Sunbow into the comic.
Things like Duke being so promienent, an increased role for Shipwreck, those were all cartoon elements. Heck, even the greenshirts was a cartoon concept. And the nano-mite threat of the first mini-series seems like it would have been a Sunbow plot.
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01-12-2012, 12:29 AM | #30 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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My favorite issues of ARAH were:
1- Attack on Springfield 2- Invasion of Cobra Island 3- Trucial Abysmia/Benzheen Yep, the storylines that had the entire team assembled. There were some great ones with smaller teams, but the ones with the whole unit were awesome.
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