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Thread
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What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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10-24-2009, 12:45 PM
Tanksmasher
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
Hey Loose, I'll try to answer some of your questions.
MACV became the unified command center for all military operations in Vietnam. One of many components of MACV, the 5th SF Group was the HQ and training center for all SF personnel except for those in SOG.
SOG, or MACV-SOG as it was also known, was only subordinate to the Special Assistant for Counterinsurgency and Special Activities (SACSA)—a two-star general and staff who coordinated with the Joint Chief’s J-3 Operations Officer and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon.
Only five non-SOG officers in Saigon knew of its existence: General Westmoreland; his chief of staff; his J-2; the Seventh Air Force commander; and the US Naval Forces, Vietnam commander. Colonel Clyde Russell became the first Chief SOG and structured SOG after the old WWII Office of Strategic Services (OSS). The SOG commanders were Colonels Clyde Russell (1964-1965), Donald Blackburn (1965-1966), John Singlaub (1966-1968), Stephen Cavanaugh (1968-1970), and John Sadler (1970-72)--all SF officers.
Although Stalker was initially a LRRP, then redesignated a Ranger who eventually went to Ranger School, I'd like to think that he went SF sometime during his career, perhaps after his 1st tour in Nam. Keep in mind that enlisted men were promoted quickly during the war, but promotions slowed down back to the norm afterwards. Some BCT graduates immediately became E2s, others not until after AIT, but all new recruits arriving in Vietnam were promoted to E3, even though they only had six months in service. Some recruits attended the NCO Course after AIT to become E5 Sgts before going off to Nam and the very best NCOC graduates were promoted to E6 Staff Sgt!
You can imagine how guys who had worked years to become NCOs must have felt when these "instant NCOs" or "Shake N Bake Sgts" arrived in Vietnam with no experience to take over as squad leaders. However, from what I've read, these NCOs turned out to be effective leaders. I like to think that Stalker was selected for NCOC, and that's why he's the squad leader of a LRRP team that has more experienced men like SE who had already done a tour with Tommy.
So why isn't Stalker ranked higher when he joins GI Joe? After the war, perhaps Stalker left the military for a while and returned later like SE. Perhaps, like you said, he was demoted or held back from another promotion because he disobeyed an order or broke a rule, though he was morally just in doing so. In peace time the average time in service before becoming an E-6 is about 8.5 years, though some NCOs took as long as 14 years. During the Vietnam war, NCOC graduates became E-6s with only about a year in service (NCOC took about 12 weeks plus another 9-10 weeks of OJT). Those who didn't attend NCOC but were recognized as committed soldiers during their tours often made E-5 near the end of their tours (about 1 1/2 years in service) and some were offered E-6 promotions if they reupped.
I like to think this is how Duke earned his stripes. He didn't attend NCOC like Stalker because Duke enlisted a little earlier, prior to the school's development, and through hard work and dedication to his fellow men during the war, he worked his way up the ladder. By 1983 when Duke first appears in GI Joe, he is a First Sgt. If he stayed in the Army since 1967, which he probably did, he would have had about 16 years in service. The average time in service to make E-8 is 17 years, so his rank is realistic. He would have climbed the ladder quickly in Nam, but steadied out after the war.
For comparison, just look at Major Dick Meadows. This guy enlisted at 15 in 1946, saw combat in Korea, and made MSGT in 1950 at age 19. He was the youngest MSGT in the Army. He remained a MSGT for 17 years until 1967 when he received a direct commission as a Captain during his SOG tour.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-24-2009 at
02:16 PM
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