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| Newsarama's Comic Roundtable With IDW-Part II |
| Posted on 10-01-2008 at 01:24 PM by Shin Densetsu | Social Bookmarks | RSS Feeds | Part II of Newsarama's roundtable discussion w/IDW about the upcoming G.I. Joe comics has been posted Highlights include:
-Larry Hama found that writing Nemesis Enforcer was interestingly comfortable
-There will only be two continuities; one for the comics, and the other for the movie
-Chuckles will be featured in G.I. Joe:Cobra, and is the main character for that series.
-One of Chuck Dixon's favorite characters is Flint, so he will be featured in the main title but Dixon wants to balance out the title so that Snake Eyes is not over exposed, and to ensure that Destro does not take over the book.
-The artists are striving for accuracy with regards to weaponry and equipment
-G.I. Joe:Origins takes place earlier than the other books, but just how long it takes place before the other series is being left unanswered. The gaps will be explored later on.
-The reprints of the Marvel books will not just be scanned reprints, but will feature new enhancements to make them vibrant presentations of classic material. The Michael Golden Yearbook 2 story will be recieving extra handling to make the representation special.
-The comic will be "absolutely more realistic" than the older books.
- The sciecne fiction aspects are being written more believably and less like fantasy. The game writers are going in the same direction.
-Larry Hama says that "a certain amount of extrapolation of technology can be expected".
-The books are aimed at an adult audience, with no red or blue lasers missing everything that they are being fired at.
Click on the discuss button below to join the ongoing discussion, and thanks to Newsarama for hosting the roundtable and HissTank boards member Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja for the heads up!
| | Credit: Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja of the Hiss Tank Forums! | Views: 570 | | Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja: Sorry if already posted. Here are the links of a roundtable with the makers of the upcoming comic series!
Newsarama.com : A GI JOE ROUNDTABLE WITH IDW, 1
Newsarama.com : A GI JOE ROUNDTABLE WITH IDW, 2
A bit of a good read!
It appears Dixon is writing the main Joe comic as well as a mini-series for the movie, 4 issues that wll each cover a specific character- Duke, Baroness, Destro and Snake-Eyes.
Hama states he's trying to make his origins mini as gritty as possible!
Also commented on how the series will be different from the past- the main difference discussed is that some characters will be completely re-imagined (my guess is Ripcord) and there will be a slower reveal of Cobra, as there are no toys they have to plug in each issue, since they're already out.
Larry also disses on the cartoon. Troynos: Good read. Good info. Looking forward to the books.
Interesting that Hama never liked Duke. Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja: No kidding. Also of note, for those who just want the highlights, they talk about how they're intentionally leaving a gap between Origins and the main series, so that they can come back and fill it in with something they have planned.
ALSO--- The book about a Joe agent infiltrating Cobra will be starring CHUCKLES!!!! Sorry Shin, I know you were hoping for Stormy, as was I. :( Still, I like Chuckles, so I'm happy. Moses: Indeed very encouraging news. They mentioned movie continuity and comic continuity - will resolute be a third or follow one of the other two? rob0213: Can't wait for these books. I miss picking up a copy of GIJOE every month. Hope they are awesome. Love Chuck Dixon, and Larry Hama should be be good as well. Outbackk: "If a character's specialty used to be listed as "assassin" then rest assured he's not going to show up as a helicopter pilot (unless that helicopter pilot assassinates somebody.)"
loved that. CHIEF W O Flint: No more Mutt shuttling a NASA Space Rocket like in the cartoon oh darn. lol. Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja: Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIEF W O Flint  No more Mutt shuttling a NASA Space Rocket like in the cartoon oh darn. lol. | That always confused me as a kid. CHIEF W O Flint: "Chuck Dixon: Flint has always been a favorite of mine so I make sure to get him in there. "
OHHHHH YEAH. CHIEF W O Flint: Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja That always confused me as a kid. | Me 2. And as an adult I'm like WTF.... esg2145: Do we have an in store date for the Oct issue yet or not?
Seeing as how it is now 10/1...........
. vision_vanson: I really hope Serpentor is re-imagined and included in this IDW comic series along with Dr. Mindbender. They really need their just due after they were brutally shafted for the 25th anniversary toyline. Serpentor looked horrible and to top it off they didnt even include Dr. Mindbender in his Arise Serpentor Arise DVD battle pack. Please IDW take these characters serious in the comic and give them new life. here's a hint? try combining both franchises of Transformers and G.I. Joe at some point in both their comics and tie their stories together where somehow Cobra Commander becomes StarScream and Serpentor becomes Megatron's son Serpent O.R. like in the Art Of War series. KushViper: there are good comics and bad comics. I'm in love with the ARAH Mythos but they've made shitty stories for 25 years. I had better scenarios in my head playing with the 80's line in the backyard then I was 6. Please make these stories worth the cover price! Hama's books were a bargin at 60 cents but $4?!?! I'll put my money into vintage joes. Golobulous: The fact that chuckles is involved in one of the first arcs has me very excited, i wish they were out right now. Troynos: I always hated in the cartoon how every Joe knew how to fly a Skystriker. BadWolf: SOLD! SOLD! SOLD! were and when do I get my copys? MAJOR WOLF: Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk cool | Indeed! Very Cool! Deckard: wait wait WAIT!!! CHUCKLES GETS A MAIN CHARACTER ROLE BEFORE FALCON?!!!! Im sorry but Falcon was a MUCH better character than chuckles. Why does he get the shaft and a goofball in blue hawaiian shirt who looks like he didnt make the cut for magnum pi get a main role outta nowhere before Falcon? LAME!!!! Golobulous: chuckles is no goofball, he was a stud in the original marvel comics see the story arc "destro search and destroy" and he was awesome in his story arc in devils due's "gi joe frontline" where he took down vance wingfield's son Golobulous: also falcon has never been a major player in the comic books. Lo-Wan Bing: I love that Chuckles is going to be a main player. Deckard: i know falcon wasnt golob but he shoulda been...especially over chuckles. And i mean c;mon...hes okay but an undercover officer over a bad ass green beret? I dunno man. oliverbox: I'm sure that I'm not the only one who can remember reading the first issues of the Marvel comics run when they were first printed. Consequently, when they came out last year with the 25th anniversary line of figures, two thoughts came to me: "God, I'm getting old" and "What did they do to Duke's hands?"
I've read G.I. Joe since it came out. I rarely missed an issue, and by now I've read all of them several times over. And though one could mention a number of good things DDP did during it's time, I have to say that overall it was not a good thing for G.I. Joe. I'm sure I'm not alone in this opinion. I will have to say that I admire and appreciate what Mr. Blaylock and the boys at DDP did for trying, and for even making the effort to carry the torch. And despite my disdain (at times) for the DDP run, I read every issue and all of Frontline.
After 25 years, however, it's time to let that continuity go. In the military (something I know a bit about), a person can retire after 20 years of active duty. It would seem then that after 25 years of service our beloved original continuity can finally be put to rest. However, long time fans know that old soldiers never really die, they just fade away... and I'm glad to know that IDW will be reprinting the old Marvel series. It deserves to live on in some way.
Old fans like me, and you fellas know who I'm talking about, usually hate change. I never really liked it when Snake-eyes would inexplicably change his costume just because the toy got an update (he didn't need those red goggles, the silver visor was fine like it was). However, I have to admit when change is needed because the status-quo is obsolete. G.I. Joe needed an update.
Our childhood heroes, our beloved members of the Joe Team needed to be revamped. I mean, honestly, as much as it pains me to say it, Duke joined the Army in 1967 (according to his file card) and Snake-Eyes, Stalker, and Stormshadow were all LRRPs in 'Nam. That was a long time ago. Mainframe was in 'Nam. A lot of those boys were in 'Nam and that just doesn't make sense anymore. And to ignore those details is to ignore what Mr. Hama has always said was the basis of the continuity: Characters.
Yet, I didn't like what Josh Blaylock did. I think they decided against careful writing and solid plots in favor of cheap, shock-value tricks like killing off Lady-Jaye (That was just wrong, Mr. Blaylock). I don't think they ever really understood the characters, either. Duke allegedly became a spy after the Marvel series. WHAT? NO. Duke was a soldier - a straight-line, Infantry soldier. An Airborne RANGER. Duke would've gone back to the 75th Ranger Regiment or the 82nd Airborne and led Infantry troops! Duke was a First Sgt. That was his whole existence. Flint, the Special Forces Warrant Officer, the Rhodes Scholar who was also a pilot would have been a better, and more likely candidate for recruitment as an Intelligence Operative. Even Falcon, but NOT Duke - NEVER! But I digress.
I think they knew it. I think DDP knew they really weren't nailing it. The sales, or lack there of, proved that. DDP tired to completely revamp with G.I. Joe: Reloaded... wrong move, Mr. Dixon. Making Duke a bad guy was like making Captain America a bad guy. There are certain things you simply do not do, sir. That was a mistake.
You see if someone is going to try and revamp G.I. Joe, my question is "Who the heck do you think you are? What right do you have to mess with our continuity? It may be a little broken, a little 'over the hill' but it's ours and we like it". And so the questions remain: Who has the talent to revamp G.I. Joe? And who has the authority to revamp G.I. Joe in the eyes of the fans?
IDW has done a masterful job in recruiting the talent. In fact, I think they made the only move they could have made in order to do a legitimate revamp and not outrage old fans like me: they got Larry Hama.
Mr. Hama is the one guy who can put his name on a Joe Comic and we old fans will say, "Well, alright. If Uncle Larry is on board we'll give it a chance." In fact, I'm excited. Larry is under no constraints from Hasbro. He's not hindered by the DDP continuity. And he has the entire panoply of characters to work with right from the beginning. Really, it sounds like the best possible thing that could happen to G.I. Joe. It needed to start again; to start all over, and Larry Hama is the only person the old fans would let do that. It's sort of like when John McCain says torture is not OK - you have to stop a minute and listen to what that man has to say about it because he's earned the right to speak.
So what if Larry never liked Duke - it's not a surprise if you read the old comic. Duke was always the one in command anytime anything really bad happened in G.I. Joe. In the old comic, Duke was incompetent and a blow-hard. I never liked Duke either - I was always a Flint fan, and Falcon and Claymore never got enough attention. But I've read in a previous interview that the reason Larry never liked Duke was because Duke was pushed on Larry by Hasbro because they needed to sell a new "team leader" and Larry felt he already had a good one that he'd been developing named "Hawk".
Duke, as a character, never really made sense. How does an E-8 fill in for a Bird Colonel? Ridiculous. But that's over with now. No more pushing characters that Larry doesn't want. Hasbro may be Joe's biological parents, but Larry adopted the Joes 25 years ago, and if Joe had a last name it wouldn't be "Hasbro" it would be "Hama"... and who knows, may be hard feelings will be put aside and we may all end up with a better Duke in the process.
Respectfully submitted. Deckard: thats all well and good but im just saying Falcon should be gettin' some love over chuckles. He had such potential and it was never really touched on. I mean i liked chuckles too but it just seems falcon and tunnel rat and jinx and even big lob should be getting some intros well over chuckles. Drill: I'm in the small crowd (I guess) that liked Reloaded. Again, I didnt grow up with the Joes but read all the comics in a span of two weeks, learning as much shit as I could, as well as watching the better episodes of the cartoon (Mini series, Cold Slither, The alternate reality one, and Dusty as a traitor). I enjoyed a different take on the Joe world, though Duke's change in character didnt sit right with me, but I thought it was interesting.
I never knew that Hamma never saw the cartoon. Interesting. I'm looking foward to these comics. Deckard: I just want Falcon to get the recognition he deserves and not get lamed out or killed. Golobulous: i bet you will see falcon deck, he is more popular now than he used to be back in the day. and i GUARANTEE you will see JINX with larry ham writing, he always liked the snake eyes, storm shadow, jinx relationship Deckard: i hope so golob...i just hope he keeps kamakura around..hes part of the arashikage thing now and i like that dude. Golobulous: i totally agree kamakura should stick around, and i would like to see BILLY alive again, the way DD killed him off really ticked me big time jjk1120: Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard I just want Falcon to get the recognition he deserves and not get lamed out or killed. | I never really remember Falcon playing that large a role in the original Marvel run. I seem to remember him in the Cobra Civil war and that debacle when all those Joes were killed, but not much else.
And I personally never liked Falcon too much because of his role in the GI Joe movie. I know he was written to be arrogent & lazy and then redeem himself at the end & save the day, but he never did much for me. I loved the figure and wanted to like him, but if I didn't like a character in the animated show, I usually liked him in the comic. But Falcon never really showed up...
Maybe this new series will give characters like Falcon a chance to shine. And I'd like to see some guys I liked (Flash, Short Fuse, Mutt, Grunt, Blowtorch, Grand Slam) used and used better than they were before. Flash never really had a big part in Marvel's run of comics. He shows up in the DDP series and gets blown up in his 2nd appearance.
I'm really looking forward to this and one of the main reasons is that they're stating from scratch. Breaker, Doc, Flash, Lady Jaye, Mainframe, and all the other dead Joes will be fair game.
Let's hope to see them. Golobulous: hey to add to that in the dic series falcon was a drug addict and got caught getting high in joe hq jjk1120: I just hope Storm Shadow is a Cobra.
Plain & simple. No switching sides. No brainwashing. Just make him a Cobra.
That is all... Shin Densetsu: Quote: |
i totally agree kamakura should stick around, and i would like to see BILLY alive again, the way DD killed him off really ticked me big time
| True, Billy's death in the end didn't move the story forward at all. Yes it was significant and it was supposed to be a pivotal event, but ultimately he was more relevant while alive, as opposed to dead, and it seemed like his death was worthless after a few issues. In the later issues it was more like, "oh yea...well..yep he is dead". Even Major Bludd just glanced at him, then turned around and started walking again.
I would like Storm Shadow to start as a Cobra, try to destroy them within, get revenge, and redeem himself as part of the joe team. The character has never been written as inherently evil, just a flawed character, a tragic hero if you will. With him evil, jealous of Snake Eyes and out to kill him, working for Cobra, he is just a generic, predictable ninja clad in white. That is boring. oliverbox: I would like to chime in here about this discussion on Snake-Eyes and Stormshadow and the rest of the Ninjas. It will completely be up to Larry Hama and Chuck Dixon, but they are under no obligation anymore to make them much of anything like they once were. Snake-Eyes doesn't have to be mute or disfigured under his mask. Stormshadow doesn't have to be avenging the death of his uncle. None of that old continuity stands... it's a clean slate. In someways it's scary to think about. The whole lives of our favorite characters have been wiped clean. Stormshadow and Snake-Eyes don't even have to know each other - I mean, presumably under the new continuity, they were never LRRPs together in Vietnam. Maybe they weren't both trained by the same ninja clan? May be they aren't linked at all... and if so, then there wouldn't be a Sean Collins because his step-father, Wade Collins, would have never served in Vietnam in the LRRP with our favorite Ninjas.
Now a word about Falcon because he's come up in a lot of the discussions so far and he's one of my favorite characters. Here's the bottom line: I think he was originally designed to be a lot
more awesome, and then the movie turned him into, well... you all know what Don Johnson did to him - He Crocketted him right up. But think about this...
There are basically three continuities at work in G.I. Joe: the
Cartoon, the Comic, and the Toy Line. Obviously they all interface at some points but they all have distinctions too. Nobody ever dies in the Cartoon, or in the Toy Line.
In the toy line, every few years they recycled things and sort of started a new group of toy characters. In the very beginning, Hawk (Colonel, West Point, etc.) was the Leader. In the next set of Toys, in order to sell more Toys, they needed a new Leader: enter Duke (better uniform design, Ranger, All-American). Then came Flint, and Hawk was also in that '85/'86 group of Toys: they booted Hawk to Flagg's job and Flint was basically the new Duke to sell to kids (that's how the cartoon worked, and Larry Hama has basically said the same thing).
Then came Falcon, Chuckles, Tunnel Rat, Repeater, Shockwave, etc. in about '87/'88... funny thing was, the Cartoon was ending and so they threw in most of those guys into the movie and called them rookies. They never used them in an ongoing series because the show ended for a while.
But let's look at who all was in that lineup, and then let's think
about Falcon: is name is a bird of Prey, like Hawk. He's a Combat
Officer like Hawk. He wears a beret like Flint. He's got a totally
awesome combat uniform like Duke and Flint. His qualifications are as good as anybody in G.I. Joe (Legitimate Green Beret). The only other officer that came out at that time was Psych-Out who is really the like the Medic of that generation, not a combat specialist.
Now let's think about what else Falcon has been used for by Hasbro: He's commanded the Sonic Fighters (Now I know they're kind of a Joke, but it's a command position, and his uniform was one of the best urban camo uniforms Hasbro ever made... and THEY KEPT HIM AROUND. Even Flint had to take over the Eco-Warriors for a while - EVEN FLINT!)
Second, they put Falcon in command of Night Force - In my humble
opinion, NF was the best Spec Ops Unit G.I. Joe has ever done. I
really think that Falcon was intended by the Toy Company to be the new "Leader" character for G.I. Joe in '87/'88, but there was no Cartoon to really demonstrate that and Larry Hama had all he could deal with at that time.
To further the Point, in the '90/'91 lineup of characters, Hasbro
introduced Capt. Grid Iron. He was the leader figure for that time
period: West Point, Infantry, etc. The difference between Falcon and Capt. Grid Iron is that there was, at that time, an on-going Cartoon series to demonstrate Capt. Grid Iron as the Leader.
Bottom Line: Falcon was supposed to be a real Leader in G.I. Joe, like Duke and Flint, but the lack of a cartoon series and the fact that Larry Hama was too busy prevented him from really being the leader he was supposed to be in the Cartoon or the Comic.
So that's my argument. I think we have to admit that Cartoon Falcon and Toy Falcon were different characters - the relationship to Duke is one of the major points of difference. I mean, even Cartoon Duke and Toy Duke are very different: Toy Duke, as we well know, is from St. Louis, MO. In the MASS Device, they say that Duke is from Iowa.
I think Falcon should been seen as VERY important and as a legitimate leader on par with Duke, and Flint - maybe even more so because he was an officer, and officers are rare in G.I. Joe. Renegade: Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverbox DDP tired to completely revamp with G.I. Joe: Reloaded... wrong move, Mr. Dixon. Making Duke a bad guy was like making Captain America a bad guy. | Chuck Dixon didnt do that, the previous guy did. Dixon had to send off the last few issues |
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