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10-19-2020, 12:23 PM | #121 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 428
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All i'll say is as a bisexual black man, it's just nice to feel included and seeing someone like you doing well can make you feel a little better about yourself, God knows I could have used that growing up.
And it could be used for storylines, like what if William "Billy" Kessler was gay and Cobra Commander knew, but never said anything and wanted to change the world so persecuted people (LGBT, PoC, Jews, and etc) could live better lives. |
10-19-2020, 02:08 PM | #122 |
retro O-rings, baby!
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 829
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Quote:
All i'll say is as a bisexual black man, it's just nice to feel included and seeing someone like you doing well can make you feel a little better about yourself, God knows I could have used that growing up.
And it could be used for storylines, like what if William "Billy" Kessler was gay and Cobra Commander knew, but never said anything and wanted to change the world so persecuted people (LGBT, PoC, Jews, and etc) could live better lives. I’ve always tended to see CC as an evildoer with the one good point of caring about Billy, though. Not sure if I could ever see him as something other than a swindler-demagogue, but I can see how it could make for an interesting twist. Destro and the Baroness’s involvement in his org would also make more sense that way, and I’m sure Storm Shadow would have an easier time rationalizing his time with them as well. |
10-19-2020, 02:17 PM | #123 |
retro O-rings, baby!
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 829
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Quote:
Using visual cues to inform guesses isn’t the same as saying that reality has a single ironclad design language, or that orientation/identity can reliably be analyzed on visual information alone. Of course LGBT people can have any appearance whatsoever, and conversely, some people who might be widely assumed to be LGBT actually aren’t. But particularly when talking about fictional characters who you can’t just have a conversation with, whose mental lives haven’t been well characterized yet, and who come from a time when many in the LGBT community were not only not personally out yet but being massively abandoned by the US government during the AIDS crisis, it’s kind of all we have to go on. I do think it’d be good to establish some characters who offer no hints of queerness as also being queer, to help portray the wide, limitless variety, but i also think it’s just authentic about the 80s that a lot of things were just by a wink and a nod. Not everywhere and always, of course, but commonly in the general culture. Last edited by books; 10-19-2020 at 02:20 PM.. |
10-19-2020, 05:51 PM | #124 |
long time lurker
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 851
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I really like this take. I'm always interested in digging into the actual human motivations of villain characters like CC, not to make them sympathetic so much as to ground them with depth and nuance (vs just greed and power). Like MCU Thanos or Handsom Jack from Borderlands 2, he's still a villain, but they all think of themselves as holding the more righteous position.
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10-20-2020, 12:19 AM | #125 |
Bald Master
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI
Posts: 15,130
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Quote:
It surprises me to say it, but I can actually see bad old CC actually doing the right thing that way, maybe half for Billy, half because it’s right, and half because he’s got a lot of guilt for some nasty choices he’s made in other areas of his life. It adds another interesting dimension to Billy’s choice not to shoot him too.
I’ve always tended to see CC as an evildoer with the one good point of caring about Billy, though. Not sure if I could ever see him as something other than a swindler-demagogue, but I can see how it could make for an interesting twist. Destro and the Baroness’s involvement in his org would also make more sense that way, and I’m sure Storm Shadow would have an easier time rationalizing his time with them as well.
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10-20-2020, 03:43 AM | #126 |
retro O-rings, baby!
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 829
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As far as the idea of three halves, I meant the idea of overdetermination. And as far as org, definitely meant organization. Since I see CC as a slimey demagogue more than a freedom fighter, I prefer to think that he can’t get any!
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10-22-2020, 11:02 PM | #127 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A little town called Springfield
Posts: 318
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I heard that Lifeline in that GI Joe Blackout video game makes a comment about Duke being good looking.
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bromanagro |
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10-24-2020, 01:44 PM | #128 |
endlesssummerofthedamned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Midway, PA
Posts: 3,773
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Gender identity and sexual orientation are typically very minor elements of what represents an individual's total character makeup, although this may vary by degree from person to person as some people are just naturally more "sexual" or outgoing while others are introverted and private. I support everyone having the freedom to be who they are without fear of persecution by others - so long as who they are doesn't involve any sort of prejudice or outward hatred/bigotry towards others, or enforcing an assumed stance of moral guidelines upon others, etc.
G.I. Joe ARAH was pretty forward in inclusivity for its time, introducing characters with diverse ethnicities and even selling female characters to predominantly young boys. Some don't approve of the idea of introducing non-hetero relations to children, which I don't understand, because biology is significantly more powerful than social constructs, so with or without those kinds of (non-hetero) role models during their formative years, they'll figure it out later. But statistically, this results in greater emotional and developmental issues as adults because the things we are taught as children tend to stick with us pretty permanently, and that leads to internal conflict. So maybe a toy line can exist without these issues - given they don't move into the realm of characters forming relationships. But G.I. Joe did, in both comic and cartoon. To look at it from another perspective, it does a great deal of good for children with autism to see other characters on tv or film with traits existing in the autism spectrum. It teaches them they're not abnormal, and it normalizes the things that they are struggling with in a society that is still trying to learn about these things and teach others about. In this light, it's no different exposing children to LGBT concepts at a young age. Biologically, we're all developing our sexual identities from birth through our early childhood, and these affect us through our development as young adults in puberty. It's easy for people that fall within gender norms to dismiss these things or make jokes about it, but that's because it's always easier to fit in when you're normal. And fitting in is a basic human need. Yet, at some time in our lives we all struggle at one time or another with SOMETHING personal, and that's the underlying thing that we should all find commonality in. We struggle, and we eventually die. So instead of bickering over these things that are deeply personal to the individual and really don't affect those that take offense to them, maybe just say "it's okay that they're different" and accept these great diversities of humanity as something that makes us stronger. As a toy line, the current Classified figures don't even have file cards or bios (unless you include the online site), but as far as the ongoing comic series - I don't have an issue with introducing characters with alternative backgrounds.
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10-25-2020, 01:17 AM | #129 |
Reptilian Ninja
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 15,965
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Thats fine and its great. Just dont take a character and make it a certain orientation just because. If you want to introduce a new character or use one that is even under the radar and doesnt really have a story thats fine too.
Quote:
Gender identity and sexual orientation are typically very minor elements of what represents an individual's total character makeup, although this may vary by degree from person to person as some people are just naturally more "sexual" or outgoing while others are introverted and private. I support everyone having the freedom to be who they are without fear of persecution by others - so long as who they are doesn't involve any sort of prejudice or outward hatred/bigotry towards others, or enforcing an assumed stance of moral guidelines upon others, etc.
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10-25-2020, 09:19 AM | #130 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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I'm okay with Tiger being the sole representative. He's already established as identifying as a homosexual and for once he is a character in the entertainment medium that does not shove it in our faces, which seems more realistic to me anyway because who has time to think about pursuing a love interest when your city is under siege by enemy forces. Any other character based on an action figure would just seem forced and - imho - "cringey."
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