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03-07-2011, 04:18 PM | #1 |
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Is It More Dramatic If The Lead Hero Is Connected To The Lead Villain? Whether it be through a relationship or same powers/tech?
In the Spiderman movies, all the villains are connected to Peter Parker: Green Goblin = Best friend's dad Doc Ock = mentor New Goblin = Best friend Venom = work rival In the Iron Man movies, the villains share a relationship and powers/tech = evil versions of the hero Iron Monger = Bigger evil Iron Man Whiplash = Uses same tech Hammer = business rival Drones = Use same tech X-Men movies Xavier and Magneto are former friends/partners. Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers. G.I.Joe: Rise of Cobra Duke is friends with Rex who becomes Cobra Commander. Duke is engaged to Anna who becomes The Baroness. Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow are former sword brothers (I know this came from Marvel.). In some cases I think the hero/villain connection does make for a more dramatic story. Such is the case with Xavier and Magneto -two friends who took different paths which creates conflict. But in other cases, like Spiderman, I don't feel the connection is always necessary. In G.I.Joe, most of us accepted the Snake-Eyes/Storm Shadow connection years ago, but the new connection between Duke, Cobra Commander, and The Baroness seemed convolouted. And when the villain is just an evil version of the hero it gets kind of boring as well. Why can't the good guy just be good and the bad guy be bad, and the good guy, because he's good, fights the bad guy, because he's bad? Like in Batman The Dark Knight, there was no connection between Batman and The Joker. One was good. One was bad and they fought. What do you guys think? Do you think it makes it more dramatic for the lead hero to be connected to the lead villain, or do you think it's just the easy way out? When does it work and when does it not?
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03-07-2011, 04:20 PM | #2 |
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It depends on the story. Sometimes its lame (ROC), sometimes its awesome (Star Wars).
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03-07-2011, 04:40 PM | #3 |
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I don't think its necessary but it does help reinforce a good villian performance but in a sloppy villian performance and characterization it just feels like a desperate way to make that character stronger.
Look at Silence of the Lambs....Hannibal has no connection to Starling but is still a great villian...mainly because he actually digs his way into her psyche. Buffalo Bob also is a great villian in that. They didn't feel the need to needlessly say something like Bob was Starlings long lost brother or something. I'm not saying a personal connection is a bad thing, but if a character is written well enough its not 100% needed. Its a good story development just not needed if done correctly. |
03-07-2011, 04:56 PM | #4 |
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Quote:
Look at Silence of the Lambs....Hannibal has no connection to Starling but is still a great villian...mainly because he actually digs his way into her psyche. Buffalo Bob also is a great villian in that. They didn't feel the need to needlessly say something like Bob was Starlings long lost brother or something.
By the way, everytime I see you screen name, I think in my head: Owner of a lonely B.A.T. (Much better than a) Owner of a broken B.A.T.
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03-07-2011, 05:00 PM | #5 |
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That's exactly where it came from I oddly was sorting my collection and noticed I only had 1 of the v4 Purple pants BAT, when that song came on the radio...BANG. Same sorta thing happened on Seibertron where I use the name NOBODY LOVES WHEELIE. I was watching Everybody Loves Raymond and sorting out my TF's when I realized nobody loves Wheelie. |
03-07-2011, 05:19 PM | #6 |
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03-07-2011, 09:13 PM | #7 |
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Usually when it's a big surprise, then it works.
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03-08-2011, 03:08 AM | #8 |
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To the Op, no it doesn't always make for a better story. Most of the time it's the exact opposite, but it does add some drama to the situation when it's handled well. |
03-08-2011, 08:10 AM | #9 |
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I agree to a point. It was cool when Vader was Luke's father, but it was lame when Chewbacca and Yoda had a history. In the case of SW, it became a lazy tactic for connecting the OT to the PT. It's almost sacrilege to point out how silly some things were in the Joe comic, but it is knee deep in these kind of interconnected relationships. Sometimes the writing in ARAH was on par with a daytime soap opera.
To the Op, no it doesn't always make for a better story. Most of the time it's the exact opposite, but it does add some drama to the situation when it's handled well. With RoC, It could have worked to have had Baroness be Duke's ex. Or have CC be Rex, the science officer that got left behind. However, making BOTH of them immediatelty tied to Duke, and on top of that, still having the SE/SS connection, just turns it into a new version of the old ARAH. Sad. I'd love to see a writer go out on a limb and regress SE back into just a commando, and have he and SS not know each other at all. Have them become nemeses within the context of the story.
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03-08-2011, 11:45 PM | #10 |
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Great point. I think especially in Sci-Fi, Comics, and the like it tends to get overused. Both in the general sense, and within the same property.
With RoC, It could have worked to have had Baroness be Duke's ex. Or have CC be Rex, the science officer that got left behind. However, making BOTH of them immediatelty tied to Duke, and on top of that, still having the SE/SS connection, just turns it into a new version of the old ARAH. Sad. I'd love to see a writer go out on a limb and regress SE back into just a commando, and have he and SS not know each other at all. Have them become nemeses within the context of the story. I guess it's just easier to connect the two and meld their motivation and background, rather than simple talent, in an effort to make the story easier to write. But, you have to handle it well. God forbid it should become a story or franchise comsuming popularity situation; something like Wolverine has become to the X-Men. Even soap operas have more outside character involvment than either X-Men or G.I. Joe. Last edited by Joseph; 03-08-2011 at 11:47 PM.. |
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