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01-30-2015, 06:44 PM | #21 |
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Given that most major comic book characters were created before 1970 by a couple Jewish guys, and therefore predominantly white (other than sidekicks or heroes who live in Africa), I just don't have any problem with them changing anyone's race.
Besides, given how big China is becoming when it comes to box office profits, they might just make an all-Chinese Avengers or Justice League movie before too long. |
01-31-2015, 07:54 AM | #22 |
Gaelic Hardcase
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In most cases I don't either. Just don't do it with title characters and don't do it when it drastically alters the dynamic.
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01-31-2015, 07:56 AM | #23 |
Gaelic Hardcase
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Not at all. You made a comment that illustrated you weren't aware of the background on the examples you made.....which were 100% different to the Jordan/Storm scenario......so I decided to fill you in.
takes more than that to upset me...... |
01-31-2015, 01:42 PM | #24 |
That's lo!
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Quote:
Do i think it was done out of some PCism? No- it was so he could put his friend in his FF movie- I don't know which is worse. But in no way does Johnny being nlack and Sue white change anything but their skin tones. Drastically altering the dynamic would be making Black Panther a white guy- being black is a degining characteristic of the African Prince. Same with Luke Cage- his growing up in the ghetto and his rising above the crime and gangs defines him- you could do the same with a poor white trash thug from Kentucky I suppose but I think that would be a stretch. However, Blade the vampire hunter- he is defined by his 1/2 vampire side... change him to white and he is still the same character. I think the reason so many white characters can have their race changed without impacting much of/or anything in the story is that most white characters are not defined by their race while most black characters are- which probably just comes down to the times in which they were created and that they were all dreamed up by white guys. I really don't like the idea of defending Trank's FF- i think he is a pompous ass with no regard for the fans of the FF and he's gone and made his own movie here while so many have been waiting for a great traditional Fantastic Four with comic heroes and bad guys... not Chronical2... There are many reasons that i want this movie to crash and "burn" but Michael B Jordan as Johnny just isn't one of them. So not attacking or anything, just wondering how you see Johnny's race change as dynamically altering his character? It's stupid and random and was done for a pretty lame reason- but how do you see it changing Johnny in any way other than "he's black"? Sorry for the typos- i'm on a tablet and the keypad bites! |
02-01-2015, 06:18 AM | #25 |
Gaelic Hardcase
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Quote:
How does Johnny's race "drastically alter the dynamic?" in this case? i imagine Sue's parents were close friends with the Storms- they die in some horrible accident when she is very young and the Storm family take her in/adopt her. She grows up a Storm, johnny is her brother.
Do i think it was done out of some PCism? No- it was so he could put his friend in his FF movie- I don't know which is worse. But in no way does Johnny being nlack and Sue white change anything but their skin tones. Drastically altering the dynamic would be making Black Panther a white guy- being black is a degining characteristic of the African Prince. Same with Luke Cage- his growing up in the ghetto and his rising above the crime and gangs defines him- you could do the same with a poor white trash thug from Kentucky I suppose but I think that would be a stretch. However, Blade the vampire hunter- he is defined by his 1/2 vampire side... change him to white and he is still the same character. I think the reason so many white characters can have their race changed without impacting much of/or anything in the story is that most white characters are not defined by their race while most black characters are- which probably just comes down to the times in which they were created and that they were all dreamed up by white guys. I really don't like the idea of defending Trank's FF- i think he is a pompous ass with no regard for the fans of the FF and he's gone and made his own movie here while so many have been waiting for a great traditional Fantastic Four with comic heroes and bad guys... not Chronical2... There are many reasons that i want this movie to crash and "burn" but Michael B Jordan as Johnny just isn't one of them. So not attacking or anything, just wondering how you see Johnny's race change as dynamically altering his character? It's stupid and random and was done for a pretty lame reason- but how do you see it changing Johnny in any way other than "he's black"? Sorry for the typos- i'm on a tablet and the keypad bites! IMO it change's the dynamic because their backstory is now different man. The Storm family unit is now totally different. I understand your reasoning but why change things so much? I don't see Johnny's race change as exclusively altering the dynamic either......If Sue had been changed too it would be all square with me. Basically they both needed to change. They have altered the family unit here in a big way. Also how do you know it wont change it? It was a needless change I don't agree with......I have said numerous times over this issue that they needed to change them both. But that's just me. Also Jordan is very much one of the reasons I want this movie to crash and burn. His attitude stinks to high heaven(just like Tranks) and I used to be a fan of his. Last edited by JokerFC; 02-01-2015 at 06:26 AM.. |
02-02-2015, 08:17 AM | #26 |
Crimson Nerd
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Quote:
Well I suppose I don't know for sure really......
IMO it change's the dynamic because their backstory is now different man. The Storm family unit is now totally different. I understand your reasoning but why change things so much? I don't see Johnny's race change as exclusively altering the dynamic either......If Sue had been changed too it would be all square with me. Basically they both needed to change. They have altered the family unit here in a big way. Also how do you know it wont change it? It was a needless change I don't agree with......I have said numerous times over this issue that they needed to change them both. We can make all they "But how do you know?" arguments we want, but the fact is you don't know either. I would agree, however, that the bolder choice would have been to make them both black. This seems like a case of Hollywood wimping out because even in the 21st century interracial relationships between a white man (Teller/Reed) and a black woman still carry a degree of taboo in the United States mainstream media. Likewise, there are few black actresses in the age range they'd want that are "marketable." Particularly with Kate Mara coming off of House of Cards. Quote:
But that's just me. Also Jordan is very much one of the reasons I want this movie to crash and burn. His attitude stinks to high heaven(just like Tranks) and I used to be a fan of his.
Personally, I don't begrudge Jordan his attitude one bit. He basically got told by a significant chunk of geekdom that he was "too black" to play Johnny Storm. Responding to racism with outspokenness doesn't bother me in the least. Telling fans they're making the movie they (Trank and Co) want to make? OK...would you rather he lie to the fans and say they're totally fanboying it up and then have the movie turn out completely differently? And don't even pretend that's not what it is (I don't mean with you personally, JokerFC). A hell of a lot of fanboys like to hide their biases behind "But it's not like the comics/original cartoons/whatever!" When in reality for the vast majority of white characters their race isn't even a factor in their character, as USAgent points out above. As I said, I'm pretty sure this will be a horrible Fantastic Four movie, but folks REALLY need to get over the Jordan-as-Johnny thing. In fact, I'll even bet that he ends up one of the best things in this movie. Last edited by Jmacq1; 02-02-2015 at 08:36 AM.. |
02-02-2015, 06:59 PM | #27 |
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Johnny has one of the lamest origins anyway. He's a jackass who has a sister that is dating a smart guy. As bad as the first two FF movies were, they got that part pretty much nailed by making him a male Paris Hilton. But the character just has a great look as the Human Torch. Ben Grimm is really no better, being the best friend of Reed. The only way they could modernize the standard origin would be to say that all four were on some sort of outer space tourism thing like what Richard Branson is attempting, and then they get hit by some radiation or whatever.
I don't mind the sci fi aspect of this reboot at all. I read that Trank described it as a sort of Croenenberg take on superheroes, and I just love that description. It makes me wish Croenenberg would make a movie himself. |
02-03-2015, 11:47 AM | #28 |
Gaelic Hardcase
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as I have said here many times to each their own(rarely seems to apply to me here though).....I don't like what Trank has done here ....and I likely never will.
"Average 4 vs Blogger Doom" may entertain some folks? But not me. |
02-03-2015, 07:30 PM | #29 |
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I know this doesn't have anything to do with the new FF movie, but this is the hot thread for Fox owned superheroes right now, so.....who has the movie rights for the Savage Land and Ka Zar? Are they their own property, or are they included with another (like how the Silver Surfer is with the Fantastic Four)? Personally, I've only ever read stories that had the X-Men in the Savage Land. Maybe a couple with Spider-Man. Ka Zar is pretty lame by himself, but he would be worth having in a movie as a supporting character just to have the chance to have superheroes vs dinosaurs.
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02-03-2015, 09:29 PM | #30 |
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Quote:
In this case the casting is even more important because the relationship between a biological brother and sister is different from the relationship between adopted siblings. Not to mention the way other characters think of their relationship is different. So this screws up even more than just the look of one character. We all know what would've been said if Marvel had hired Channing Tatum to play James Rhodes in Iron Man 2 instead of Don Cheadle. They would have been called the most racist company in the biz. Yet Fox casts a black guy as a white character, and someone's telling us we're racist for disagreeing with that move? Talk about a colossal double standard. I guess we're supposed to shut up and let them do a bunch more reboots and cast black people to play Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, etc., etc. Anyone who would object to such a thing is obviously "ray-sis." LOL, a black family adopting a white kid? So the cosmic superpowers aren't the most unlikely thing in the movie...
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