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View Poll Results: 09 NBA MVP | |||
LEBRON JAMES | 13 | 41.94% | |
KOBE BRYANT | 10 | 32.26% | |
DWANYE WADE | 8 | 25.81% | |
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll |
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03-16-2009, 03:49 PM | #11 |
Hisstank lackey
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You do have to account for the fact that they are in the Eastern conference where a LOSING record could still get you into the playoffs! The western conference has easily been the more dominant conference for the last decade or so. I think if you put the Kobe of 3yrs ago with that Laker squad in the eastern conf.they would be "winning" too! Also they were winning back then they still made the playoffs both of those years even if they lost to Phoenix in the first round
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03-16-2009, 04:02 PM | #12 |
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Giving Nash back to back MVPs was a joke. The same people arguing that Wade should win the MVP now are the same people that argued against giving Kobe the MVP in 05-06.
Kobe did it in the western conference with far lesser talent. He had Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup. And the bench was abysmal. Wade has a bunch of athletic guys surrounding him. Mario Chalmers is fuckin' stud man. Beasley the #2 pick. JO is a former all star and a pretty decent center. IMO, it comes down to Lebron and Kobe. And eventhough there's no disputing the #s Bron has put up. His best performances have come against crappy teams. Lebron is 1-2 against the Celts and 0-2 against the Lakers. Kobe's supporting cast is vastly overrated aside from Pau. Bynum has been injured for most of the season, Odom is inconsistent. Vujacic, Farmar, Walton are having terrible years compared to a year ago. Only Ariza has been a bright spot, and possibly Powell. Lebron also plays in the East. The 8th seeded Mavs would be ranked #4 in the East. Kobe leads the league in DNP 4th quarters. He'd be leading the league in scoring if he played more 4th quarters but his team is putting the game away at the end of three. |
03-16-2009, 04:04 PM | #13 |
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Fair enough. But explain the Cavs' .775 win percentage vs. the East and the Lakers' .739 against the East? How about the Cavs' .846 vs. the west and the Lakers' .837 against the West?
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03-16-2009, 04:04 PM | #14 |
Hisstank lackey
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Giving Nash back to back MVPs was a joke. The same people arguing that Wade should win the MVP now are the same people that argued against giving Kobe the MVP in 05-06.
Kobe did it in the western conference with far lesser talent. He had Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup. And the bench was abysmal. Wade has a bunch of athletic guys surrounding him. Mario Chalmers is fuckin' stud man. Beasley the #2 pick. JO is a former all star and a pretty decent center. IMO, it comes down to Lebron and Kobe. And eventhough there's no disputing the #s Bron has put up. His best performances have come against crappy teams. Lebron is 1-2 against the Celts and 0-2 against the Lakers. Kobe's supporting cast is vastly overrated aside from Pau. Bynum has been injured for most of the season, Odom is inconsistent. Vujacic, Farmar, Walton are having terrible years compared to a year ago. Only Ariza has been a bright spot, and possibly Powell. Lebron also plays in the East. The 8th seeded Mavs would be ranked #4 in the East. Kobe leads the league in DNP 4th quarters. He'd be leading the league in scoring if he played more 4th quarters but his team is putting the game away at the end of three.
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03-16-2009, 04:09 PM | #15 |
Cobra Viper
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Lebron EC 31-9 / WC 22-4 Kobe WC 36-7 / EC 17-6 The western conference is far superior. The CAVs are in the East they will ultimately play fewer games against the West. You can't extrapolate a win % as being representative of how they would do if you placed the team in that conference. |
03-16-2009, 04:17 PM | #16 |
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. The same people arguing that Wade should win the MVP now are the same people that argued against giving Kobe the MVP in 05-06.
Kobe did it in the western conference with far lesser talent. He had Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup. And the bench was abysmal. Wade has a bunch of athletic guys surrounding him. Mario Chalmers is fuckin' stud man. Beasley the #2 pick. JO is a former all star and a pretty decent center. To say Chalmers is a stud is to take away what Wade has meant for that team. He's a manager and defender. In fact, Farmar has comparable per 48min numbers to Chalmers, but as a backup. I don't hear anyone praising Farmar as an accessory to Kobe. Look at Wade's shooting percentage, it's higher than Kobe's (in fact higher than Kobe has EVER shot in a season), which means he's likely taking smarter shots aside from his horrid 30% 3pt shooting. And he's also the indesputable go-to guy for that team, as are Kobe and Lebron for their respective teams. Also, Beasley being the #2 doesn't mean anything. Should we have been discounting Billups as a MVP candidate in 03-04 because they had Darko? He's been good this year, but has greatly benefited from playing with a great player who commands a double team, and who finds the open guy. Jermain O'Neal is bad. I'd rather have Jeff Foster as my starter. |
03-16-2009, 04:31 PM | #17 |
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Wow, nice way to twist the stats around.
Lebron EC 31-9 / WC 22-4 Kobe WC 36-7 / EC 17-6 The western conference is far superior. The CAVs are in the East they will ultimately play fewer games against the West. You can't extrapolate a win % as being representative of how they would do if you placed the team in that conference. The inferior conference thing means nothing. Look at the bottom of the West. The Cavs and Celts don't have the benefit of playing the Kings, Clips, Wolves, Grizz, and Thunder 4 times each a season like the Lakers do. They get the Wiz and the Raptors. The same thing is said about the east year in and year out, but playing "inferior" teams can't completely prepare you for playing in the Finals against the Spurs, Lakers, and other elite teams from the West, can it? The NBA Championship has been taken home 3 of the last 5 years by the East. I'm not trying to insinuate that the East is dominant, but I think there's less of a gap than you may think. |
03-16-2009, 04:36 PM | #18 |
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Real quickly, I want to say I'm really impressed that we've been able to have this discussion in a civil manner. I know how people get when talking about their team, and this has been a very well thought out, stat/logic based discussion. I enjoy these types of conversations. Thanks guys!
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03-16-2009, 04:44 PM | #19 |
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I've been watching Lebron almost everytime he plays at home (I live in Ohio) and I can honestly say that he's got a great one two punch in Mo Williams being his teammate. I think Kobe and Pau Gasol are great as well, but Cleveland has to take the MVP this season...he's still just too fast and well... big!
Edit: Lebron just got named player of the week, lol I just had to let you all know. By the way, what's everyone think of former 2 time MVP Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns, he's averaged over 20 points in his last 10 or so games! Who knows, he might win it again! Last edited by COBRAVAMPIRE; 03-16-2009 at 04:59 PM.. |
03-16-2009, 04:46 PM | #20 |
Hisstank lackey
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Real quickly, I want to say I'm really impressed that we've been able to have this discussion in a civil manner. I know how people get when talking about their team, and this has been a very well thought out, stat/logic based discussion. I enjoy these types of conversations. Thanks guys!
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