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View Poll Results: What do you think should happen to Pete Rose? | |||
Pete Rose should be reinstated and enshrined in the Hall of Fame during his lifetime. | 64 | 65.31% | |
Pete Rose should be reinstated during his lifetime, but not enshrined in the Hall of Fame. | 1 | 1.02% | |
Pete Rose should be reinstated and enshrined into the Hall of Fame only after his death. | 2 | 2.04% | |
Pete Rose should be reinstated after his death, but never enshrined in the Hall of Fame. | 0 | 0% | |
Pete Rose should never be reinstated. | 14 | 14.29% | |
I really couldn't care less. | 17 | 17.35% | |
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
08-23-2009, 10:46 PM | #21 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Castle, Delaware
Posts: 4,498
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Quote:
He also played as a manager. He was a player/manager for a time, thus he is tainted.
If you're part of baseball and you break a baseball rule - regardless of your role - then you're guilty. Rules appy to ball clubs, not parts of ball clubs. As far as Steroids go, they are ILLEGAL WITHOUR PRESCRIPTION. This issue is not complex. Its the same as heroin or morphine or coke. You use an illegal drug, you deal with the rammifications if caught. No different if I was getting codine without a prescription. I'd be in trouble. Same with steroids. Funny how players and fans think that somehow these guys are above morality and law. All baseball rules are black and white. You break a rule, you deal witht he punishment. True, steroids did not have a clearly defined rule but illegal drugs did. And any drug taken without prescription is considered illegal. Baseball turned a blind eye to that for far too long. Steroids are waaaay off topic though. Rose was a great player. One of the best and certainly the best of his generation. He does deserve a place in the Hall, with out a doubt. First ballot winner with more than 90% of the vote. Problem is, he erased his name from the ballot the minute he decided to bet on his sport while he was part of it. Rules are rules. There are no bend for sentimentality or greatness. All are subject to the rules and I think it's good that the MLB is sticking to the ruling. Unfortunate, yes. But the right thing to do. And it is a complex issue, but whatever. I'm not looking to get into an argument. The difference between PED users and Rose is that the PED users did something that was tacitly approved of by the entire mechanism of MLB; owners knew it, media knew it, other players knew it, coaches knew it, trainers knew it, doctors knew it, and fans either knew it or kept their fingers in their ears. And they did what they did to become better baseball players. I am not ever going to buy that it is a simple black and white issue. Ultimately players were tacitly encouraged to use steroids. What Pete Rose did had no connection to being better at baseball and was expressly forbidden by one of the game's most deeply held and widely publicized rule. Two widely different things. However, banning for life from MLB does not necessarily equal banning from Cooperstown. They are two separate entities. After Rose was banned by MLB, the Hall of Fame, on its own, decided to ban him as well. Even if Selig removed Rose's ban, there'd be no guarantee the Hall would do the same.
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08-23-2009, 10:47 PM | #22 |
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The punishment does not fit the crime. They could have tossed him out of the league and banned him from being a first ballot hall of famer, but keeping him out of the Hall of fame for good punishes the fans and baseball itself.
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08-23-2009, 10:52 PM | #23 |
Flint's Boss.
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Quote:
Sports Gambling is pretty illegal outside of Vegas and other controlled environments anyway.
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08-23-2009, 10:53 PM | #24 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
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Nobody will ever break his hit record, and how many times do you see someone put more effort than him. The guy dove into first base (several feet in the air when he was fully strecthed). Some of the players today do not even run full speed to first base. Also, the guy bet his team would win. Is that not the same type of gambling the yankees are doing by paying all these high profile baseball players. They are gambling this payout will win them the World Series. Well back to Rose, he is Mr. Baseball.
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08-23-2009, 10:54 PM | #25 |
Flint's Boss.
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Actually many of the PEDs and things those players were taking were not technically illegal...because nobody except the shady pharmacists making them knew they existed. I know that's a technicality, but it's not illegal if it ain't on the books.
And it is a complex issue, but whatever. I'm not looking to get into an argument. The difference between PED users and Rose is that the PED users did something that was tacitly approved of by the entire mechanism of MLB; owners knew it, media knew it, other players knew it, coaches knew it, trainers knew it, doctors knew it, and fans either knew it or kept their fingers in their ears. And they did what they did to become better baseball players. I am not ever going to buy that it is a simple black and white issue. Ultimately players were tacitly encouraged to use steroids. What Pete Rose did had no connection to being better at baseball and was expressly forbidden by one of the game's most deeply held and widely publicized rule. Two widely different things. However, banning for life from MLB does not necessarily equal banning from Cooperstown. They are two separate entities. After Rose was banned by MLB, the Hall of Fame, on its own, decided to ban him as well. Even if Selig removed Rose's ban, there'd be no guarantee the Hall would do the same. No arguments. Just because an entity as a whole looked the other way doesn't make it right. ALL of the MLB is guilty on the issue of steroids. All who allowed it are as guilty as those who took part in it. Just because a building full of people are smoking crack and the ones not doing it are looking the other way or providing doesn't mean that there is a complex issue of whether or not it's ok to do. It's wrong and all the people involved are wrong. It's not complex by any means. It plain old wrong.
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08-23-2009, 10:56 PM | #26 |
#voteblackjack
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^ This
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08-23-2009, 11:00 PM | #27 |
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The problem is in this statement. Baseball didn't punish the Fans. Rose did. All the MLB did was punish him for his indiscretion. Does the crime fit the bill? That's a separate issue. The point is, is he's guilty and thus is paying for his wrong doing.
Sports Gambling is pretty illegal outside of Vegas and other controlled environments anyway. |
08-23-2009, 11:02 PM | #28 |
Crimson Guard
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Location: New Castle, Delaware
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Quote:
No arguments.
Just because an entity as a whole looked the other way doesn't make it right. ALL of the MLB is guilty on the issue of steroids. All who allowed it are as guilty as those who took part in it. Just because a building full of people are smoking crack and the ones not doing it are looking the other way or providing doesn't mean that there is a complex issue of whether or not it's ok to do. It's wrong and all the people involved are wrong. It's not complex by any means. It plain old wrong.
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08-23-2009, 11:03 PM | #29 |
#voteblackjack
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Steroids is a complex issue because alot of the stuff wasn't technically illegal at the time the players used it.
The bigger issue with steroids is the need to use something to get the edge over the others. And that is partly the blame of the fans and the owners, as well as baseball itself. The more HRs you hit, the more you get paid. That's basically the issue in a nutshell. So people who's job, for lack of a better word, it is to play baseball and hit HRs.. if the other 3 guys who are your competition are doing it and natural talent alone doesn't give you the edge over them and it's going to cost you millions of dollars and your career... What would you do? When the Ortiz thing came out, a former Sox pitcher Bronson Arroyo stood up and said "yeah, I was using this stuff that at the time wasn't banned, I stopped when it became banned. I used it because it gave me a little bit of an edge". Here's a guy that is a middle of the road pitcher. He's not an ace, but he's a decent starting pitcher. And the reasons he gave are the reasons that the players used steroids and performance enhancers. The reasons they did it aren't right, not by a long shot, but the bigger issue is that they felt they needed to in order to get the edge so they could keep their job, get a better job, or even just become a star and get that huge payday (A-Rod, I'm looking at you...). That last part, that's entirely the fault of the fans who make these guys "stars". Me personally, I prefer guys like Kevin Youkilis and Derek Jeter over the power hitters any day of the week. I love ball players, not hitters. Guys that can get on base not just by knocking the ball out of the park, guys that can make great defensive plays, guys that just love to play the game. But alot of the fans love the power hitters or the power pitchers. So it creates this feeling of needing to be the best, needing to hit for power, and having to do whatever you can to get there. It's not right by a long shot, it's just the way it is.
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08-23-2009, 11:07 PM | #30 |
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So who here would actually be pissed off if they did allow Pete Rose into the HOF?
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